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Sri Lanka Equity Forum » Stock Market Talk » Expert Chamber » EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...

EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...

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1EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:10 am

Think9

Think9
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
First topic message reminder :

I always had this question. Do the EPF funds get invested in good shares?? and do the department analyst do proper study in stock before buying ??

EPF/ETF are people`s money. I think they have done so much mistakes before and im quite shocked who advice to buy.

i can remember, EPF bought huge qty of SPEN at 220, then 180 level , again 167 , latest 135 . And now its 134.. Why such a poor investments ? I mean we all know SPEN and most of the hotels got a higher PE. I mean just using simple ratios anyone can understand that SPEN is over-valued until it falls to 130-135 levels.. How many additional no.of shares EPF would ve got more no of shares, if they bought at 130-140 levels instead of 180-220 levels..

And mind you, EPF invested on GRAN at 220 levels..

Related articles :

http://www.ft.lk/2011/06/29/epf-active-in-sluggish-bourse/

http://www.ft.lk/2011/05/25/epf-buys-1-m-more-shares-of-spence-hotel-holdings/

http://www.ft.lk/2011/04/21/epf-invests-more-in-aitken-spence/



Last edited by Think9 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spellings)


Quibit


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
You should watch the movie 'The Inside Job' which clearly shows how all subprime debt were sold to pension funds. Same thing is happening in Sri Lankan Stock Market. High Networth Investors (HNWI) manipulates the stocks and takes some shares far beyond reasonable valuations. What is their ultimate goal or the objective. To place it with EPF or ETF. Coz they think that they could sell all the crap shares to these pension funds and get themselves a good profit. Why Pension Funds are not properly regulated in Sri Lanka? Why US investment banks were deregulated? You may find the same answer!

Have a look at some of the recent purchases these institutions had done. You will be shy and shocked to look at some of the valuations or the justifications made for purchases worth billions of rupees. Unlike in US, purchase of Sri Lankan equities by these pensions funds are not decided on the basis of a rating given by Rating agencies or advise of harvard or colombo university professors but by some mediocre stock brokers and middlemen who are involved in incentivizing buyers and sellers with kickbacks and frivolously supported by research reports prepared by analysts who had just passed out their advance level exams and paid salaries of Rs 25,000 per month and recruited by substandard brokering outfits.

This is another ponzi scheme. The bubble will soon burst on the face of pensioners and many private sector employees who are going to depend on their gratuity and EPF. Meanwhile middlemen and so called HNWI investors together with dealing brokers are walking away with millions of rupees.

These guys called themselves financial engineers. Some called themselves investors. But whatever they call themselves, they have only played rugby or cricket instead of proper higher education, or degree of any discipline which require as a investment banker. They are purpotedly building dreams for innocent people with the courtesy of pension funds. They are been honored and given many titles. It is sad coz tins bubble is going to burst one day. These so called financial engineers are not building bridges. They are buiding dreams for innocent people. They are living in other peoples dreams! When these dreams turn into nightmares only other people suffer.

Sri Lankan stock bubble will burst the day Sri lankan pension funds are properly regulated and stop buying these manipulated and overvalued stocks. We are only prolonging the certainty.

http://investors.lk/8627/Sri+Lanka%3A+Will+%91Kick+Backs%92+be+revealed+as+Auerbach+pulls+out+from+Asia+Securities%3F

42EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:44 am

econ


Global Moderator
Sri lankan pension funds are governed by Central bank fund managers.
But looking at current deals , they some time invest blindly. They might think that invest in blue chips is OK even those blue chip companies are massively over priced. Good example is pension fund investments in Aitcan spence. If you check any fundemental valuations it is easy to understand that EPF bought aitcan spence shares at very high prices paying high premium.However, there are many fundementallly strong growth potential shares available at lower prices. I think EPF is now trying to get in to management of these compnaies. That may be the reason they pay for premium prices and buy more shares. Good example is commercial bank. Moreover, it is unethical to buy banks shares by pension funds which is managed by central bank fund managers.

43EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:55 am

econ


Global Moderator
According to recent research on Sri Lankan pension funds, diversification should be promoted. However, main purpose should be to maximize expected utility of the pariticipants of pension funds not government indirect control of public companies.

44EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:17 am

Slstock


Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics
@MoneyLover wrote:
@CSE1 wrote:Wednesday, June 29, 2011
EPF portfolio Rs 924 b by May 2011

Investments in corporate debt securities soon :

Ravi Ladduwahetty

The Employees Provident Fund (EPF) has an astronomical Rs 924 billion in its investment portfolio by end May 2011. Of the total investment portfolio of Rs 924 billion as at May 31, 2011, the Fund has invested Rs 856 billion in Treasury Bills and other government securities, accounting for 92.7% of the total portfolio, Central Bank’s EPF Superintendent Rupa Dheerasinghe told Daily News Business yesterday.

Of the remaining investments, there is Rs 57.28 billion or 6.2% of the total portfolio which is invested in listed and unlisted equities of which there is Rs 53 billion which accounts for 5.5% of the total portfolio in listed equities while the investment portfolio in unlisted equities is Rs 7.1 billion or 0.7% There is also 0.5% or Rs 4.62 billion invested in Reverse Repo.

“She said that the Fund was managing the monies of the people and was extremely vigilant in the manner of making the investments being acutely conscious of the security of the people some of whom have their lifetime’s savings in the EPF. “We are safeguarding the interests of the EPF members while giving them the best possible returns. We made an overall return of 15% for all our investments, she said.

“We are extremely careful when making the investments and our decisions are made by a fully-fledged team of Fund Managers who are acutely conscious of the market developments and fluctuations and their decisions are backed scientifically,” she said.

source - www.dailynews.lk

EPF's total investment portfolio is Rs 924 billion
The overall return for EPF is 15%.

Rs 856 billion or 92.7% has been invested in government securities which are zero risk but very low return (in last year, about 7%-9%p.a.).
Total investment in equity 6.2% or Rs. 57.28 B

Will do a simple math ..... (I may be wrong)

Total return Rs. 924 B X 15% = 138.6 B

Approx return from govt securities Rs. 856 B X 9% = 77.04 B
Approx return from govt securities (RGS) Rs. 856 B X 10% (optimistically) = 85.6 B


Therefore, the balance Rs. 61.56 B came from equity investments of Rs. 57.28 B (or 53 B at 10% RGS)
then the return on equity investment should be;
@RGS 9%-------61.56 B / 57.28 B = 107.5%
@RGS 10%------53 B / 57.28 B = 91.7%
I noticed some of the forum members mentioned above that return on EPF's investment portfolio is only 4%, Can it be possible??

But, my calculations may be inncorrect as EPF's total return may include large amount of unrealized gains and we don't know how many years EPF already held those securities/shares (as time of investment is critical for this calculation), but I don't think actual return is as low as 4%.

@factfinder,
Most of us does not aware of 30% investment in Colombo Port Project. But, I heared there was a bid filed by SPEN with Singapore Port for Colombo South Port Development Project. No any idea whether it awarded to SPEN/Singapore Port or not. Also not aware of equity protion of SPEN in the venture. So, if you have any information in that regard, please share with us.


Very good post broadening our view. Well Done. Also thanks to Academic, Think9, FactFinder for a good discussion without insults which I always appreciate.


Further to above facts I would like to add the below . Let me start by saying Long term vs Short term mind set is/ can be different. If you think Optimal and Short term as operative words then we can raise questions about their strategy.


1) In general EPF has not let us down over the years for some of us who benefited from it. Their annual return has been decent and during difficult time for which I am happy as I do not expect miracle returns form a fund like them. The question is what is the "Expectation" of a general EPF beneficiary who is not exposed to Stock Markets or the trends or their internal workings? Is EPF somehow meeting that expectations by balancing their overall returns ( not only selected equity buys)?



2) Yes EPF has made a few not optimal investments in short term ( not buying at the right time .
But we need to remember

i) for Long Term funds like EPF they do not have to dispose what they bought now. They can hold
until desired return is met maybe in 5 years. This is different to a Retailer mind set. [/b] They also
have bought stocks at lower prices which they can dispose now for profit. Long term mind set,
holding and disposal strategy is different. It may not be optimal in short term.

- When spen was trading around RS 300 in 2009 ( much before 1 to 15 split) maybe some thought
for prevailing market situation it was overvalued and maybe there were better shares to
invest. I reiterate we need to look from the mentality at that time not now. But if one bought at that
time for long term holding they could have disposed at 8-10 gain in 2010. ( I understand 2010 was
an exception but this is an example only)

Now if one bought SPEN at Rs 600 then they can ask why did you buy at Rs 600 when you could
have bought for Rs 300.

In the long term solid companies tend to pay off. ( depend on holding power) . For short term it looks
like a bad move if you only look at percentage gains, fundamental analysis and trends.

The real question is can someone say buying share at RS 230 now is a bad move in 5 years time?
Will there is a huge difference of Rs 90 ( Rs 140 vs Rs 230 which I agree is a large dip due to fundamental)
if the gain will be multiple times than that ? ( I am not saying it will happen but saying it could looking at past history patterns)


Another opposite example : Rememebr when SLIC sold CFIN for Rs 800 recently ? Some asked why do
they have to sell a undervalued share at that price. Answer : They bought long ago at much chepaer
prices and sold with significant gains after it satifies their strategy. No one will ask now, did they
buy CFIN overvalued when they purchased then.? People will say now oh they bough cheap.


ii) EPF seems to act sometimes in rescue missions in difficult market times. So from time to time
when they buy they would not get the best price or best from retailer point of view who has more flexibility.
Also negotiating and buying large quantities can require premium as opposed to buying from retail
stock market

But due to their long term long holding, averaging and disposing plan as I mentioned in i)
it appears to offset somehow.

iii) We also do not know about their cash availabilty/release periods. Someone said "best time to invest is
when some has money to invest"! (Ofcourse the circular question arises why do you buy a overvlaued share with that money?)





3) Also note
"Of the total investment portfolio of Rs 924 billion as at May 31, 2011"
- the Fund has invested Rs 856 billion in Treasury Bills and other government securities, 92.7%
- Rs 57.28 billion or 6.2% of the total portfolio which is invested in listed and unlisted equities
- 0.5% or Rs 4.62 billion invested in Reverse Repo.

With a claimed return of 15% and over 93% attributed to lesser risk investments we need to look at overall performance and and not isolate only the equity component. Somehow they seems to be balancing their return. Cannot say they are bad managers. We comments on Equity as we are knowledagle. But what about the overall management?


In summary :

Some people can again counter argue to what I said , isn;t it better to buy at Rs130 than RS 230 knowing it is overvalued. it is waste of public money. But large funds as EPF can act differently with different approaches than us. If still you say it is a waste now think say 5 years from now ? Can we say it will be bad investment ?

One thing I agree is that EPF should disclose more about their strategies ( not everything but enough for the public to get an understanding) as it is a Public Fund. Maybe it would clear this matter more than keeping it secret.

45EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:16 am

godswen


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Nice writing up there slstock!

46EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:28 am

Rajitha

Rajitha
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
y tis quite old movie and I have that with me so does
BBC - Horizon - 1999 - The Midas Formula (Stockmarket Formula) which is again amazing try to find it and see also!
Even old wall street movie is quite nice!!

47EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:07 pm

Quibit

Quibit
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
@Rajitha wrote:y tis quite old movie and I have that with me so does
BBC - Horizon - 1999 - The Midas Formula (Stockmarket Formula) which is again amazing try to find it and see also!
Even old wall street movie is quite nice!!

'The Inside Job' is a 2010 movie!!

48EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:09 pm

thighrokker


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@econ wrote:Sri lankan pension funds are governed by Central bank fund managers.
Any one has an idea what the qualifications are , to become a fund manager at Central Bank?
Shocked

49EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:11 pm

samueldaniel7


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
Thanks

http://samueldaniel7.blogspot.com

50EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:32 pm

duke


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

51EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:56 pm

MarketSIRA


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
@econ wrote:Sri lankan pension funds are governed by Central bank fund managers.
But looking at current deals , they some time invest blindly. They might think that invest in blue chips is OK even those blue chip companies are massively over priced. Good example is pension fund investments in Aitcan spence. If you check any fundemental valuations it is easy to understand that EPF bought aitcan spence shares at very high prices paying high premium.However, there are many fundementallly strong growth potential shares available at lower prices. I think EPF is now trying to get in to management of these compnaies. That may be the reason they pay for premium prices and buy more shares. Good example is commercial bank. Moreover, it is unethical to buy banks shares by pension funds which is managed by central bank fund managers.

Go to Initial Link: http://www.cseleaks.com/2010/12/sri-lanka-will-kick-backs-be-revealed.html

52EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:32 pm

MarketSIRA


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
@aladdin wrote:Guys i feel all of u are going on a wrong direction. A fund like EPF is not investing on short or medium. Normally they invest looking at the long run such as 5-10 years of profit realization. In that view what above discussed will not be valid. Many think that the decision made by EPF is wrong because majority is in the set of mind of look at the short run.

But one thing is bit suspicious to me. All the time the seller was same to EPF. May be a core incident. But who knows.

I report u decide.

Some FACTS from Different sources

Links: http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/06/15/sri-lanka-epf-buys-richard-pieris-and-dimo-devasurendra-and-thurston-investments

Since January this year, Sri Lanka’s largest Social Security fund EPF managed by Monetary Board of Central Bank under the guidance of Central Bank Governor Ajith Nivard Cabraal had been buying several stakes of listed companies in the island nation held by either Arjun Aloysius led Perpetual Capital or stakes held by Ajith Devasurendra according to market sources.

It was also evident in May 2011 that Employees provident Fund (EPF) and the Laugfs Gas (LGL) have emerged among top seven shareholders of Ceylon Grain Elevators (GRAN), replacing Perpetual Capital Ltd and Perpetual Asset Management Ltd, in the latest quarterly financials of the company. Subsequently as per financials, several shareholders such as Aviva NDB Insurance, Symphony Capital and Ajith Devasurendra had disappeared from the top 20 shareholders list of GRAN whilst back in 11 February 2011 it was reported that Perpetual Capital, an investment fund, has bought 10.3% stake in Grain Elevators belonging to Singapore’s Prima Group on February 10, a move that reflected bullishness in the food and beverage sector of the country.

On the contrary EPF has stepped up buying further into Sri Lanka’s premier blue chip John Keells Holdings (JKH) at recent times by picking up a bulk of the 2.36 million shares of JKH which traded for Rs. 656 million whilst on March this year after collecting over one million JKH shares. EPF also bought 1 million Royal Ceramics shares for Rs. 150 million on the Mid March. On April this year with a bullish outlook in equity investments, the Employees Provident Fund (EPF) picked up 1 million shares of Aitken Spence (SPEN) for Rs. 165.5 million whilst the seller was Carson Cumberbatch Group (CARS).

Sri Lanka’s largest social security fund EPF that has working population’s savings exceeding Rs.900 billion had been aggressively investing in Sri Lanka’s capital market since May last year when it began investing in Colombo’s five start hotel Galadari becoming the largest institutional shareholder of the company. Thereafter EPF had been actively buying large stakes in premier licensed commercial bank’s of the island nation and EPF is the sixth largest shareholder in Seylan Bank PLC (SEYB) having 5.16%, seventh largest shareholder of DFCC Bank having 4.76%, second largest shareholder of Sampath Bank (SAMP) having 8.25% and second largest shareholder of HNB having over 7% and has over 9% of Commercial Bank of Ceylon (COMB)

Link: http://print.dailymirror.lk/business/127-local/48668.html

Since early 2011, Central Finance (CFIN) shares shot up over Rs.1700 (per share) due to high illiquidity, and market sources speculated about a possible takeover by a group of investors led by Perpetual Capital and Browns fame. Meanwhile, Central Bank’s Monetary Board managed country’s largest pension fund, EPF on Tuesday bought a 2% stake in CFIN just two days before CFIN’s announcement of share subdivision. Market analysts are also of the views that EPF has been actively following several major quantity buyouts of listed companies by Arjun Aloysius led Perpetual Capital and Browns fame since early this year that came in to light after EPF bought major stakes of Laugfs Gas (LGL) and Grain Elevators (GRAN). EPF recently bought stakes in Richard Pieris from Ajith Devasurendra.

Link: http://forum.srilankaequity.com/t5102-share-investments-by-epf

Link: http://www.ft.lk/2011/06/29/epf-active-in-sluggish-bourse/

Link: http://srilankastockpicks.blogspot.com/2011/03/perpetual-capital-buys-9-of-central.html

Link: http://print.dailymirror.lk/business/127-local/43663.html

Employees provident Fund (EPF) and the Laugfs Gas (LGL) have emerged among top seven shareholders of Ceylon Grain Elevators (GRAN), replacing Perpetual Capital Ltd and Perpetual Asset Management Ltd, the latest quarterly financials outline.

As per March quarter financial accounts of GRAN, EPF has become the fourth largest shareholder of the company holding 8.4 percent (5, 004,900 shares), while shareholder Laugfs Gas becoming the sixth largest shareholder of GRAN with 1.67 percent (1 million shares) of the company.

The accounts also give a hint from whom the two entities have bought shares. Perpetual Capital stake that was 2.134 million shares as at 31 December 2011, has dipped to 693,800 shares on 31 March 2011, and Perpetual Asset Management’s 1.2 million shares had dropped to 456,600 shares as at 31 March 2011.

Meanwhile, as per financials, several shareholders such as Aviva NDB Insurance, Symphony Capital and Ajith Devasurendra had disappeared from the top 20 shareholders list of GRAN whilst Nimal Perera, Guantum Capital and S.N.M. Rishan have reached the Top 20 list.

Back in 11 February 2011 it was reported that Perpetual Capital, an investment fund, has bought 10.3% stake in Grain Elevators belonging to Singapore’s Prima Group on February 10, a move that reflected bullishness in the food and beverage sector of the country. Meanwhile, reports said that analysts speculated part of the increase was due to the interest by Perpetual whilst high networth investor Ishara Nanayakkara of LOLC-Browns fame had picked up around 2.5% stake, and top investor Nimal Perera collecting 1%.


Analyse!!!!!




53EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:43 pm

Quibit

Quibit
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

54EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:02 pm

gann

gann
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
[mention][/mention] wrote:
So, what exactly are the regulations and professional guidelines in this ‘Investment Policy Statement’ with regard to buying and selling shares of listed commercial banks? It is very clear. It says: “The Fund cannot invest in stocks of the banking and financial sector since the Monetary Board regulates both EPF and banks and financial institutions.”

The key point is Dr. Harsha is raising a serious insider dealing going on by EPF investing in commercial banks. I didnt think about it that way before. Hats off to Dr. Harsha. This gets further complicated if EPF invest in companies that have banking stocks lol! Anthojata Bahi Jata

55EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:01 pm

Think9

Think9
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
First of all I must say, I used to share my thoughts in invest***.lk but i stopped after a while bcoz i couldnt have opinions, and contribution from any professional investors and all I saw is discussions about BFL, PCH, GREG,, TWOD. And none of the good topics didnt managed to go far. So i would like to thank SLequity for keeping the quality of the site which is not an easy job.

secondly i would to thank all senior ppl who have shares their ideas and made this look a valuable conversation and making it able to look from different angles.

@quibit : great thing that u brought in the annual report into the discussion.

Invest income from TBs and shares have drop from 2008 to 2009. Thy ve invested more in TBs and TB % was quite high in 2009 than 2008 (specially in corporate bonds due to the post war situation ). so how come it ws a drop ? And its quite interesting to c the 2010 annual report.. how come its late if the financial yr end is Dec. : O



56EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:38 pm

Rajaraam


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Pl. do not misunderstand me. Why should we worry about EPF investment decisions? I realy cant understand. There is a management body in EPF and may be they are looking for long term benefits rather than earning quick money. Anyway that is their business and I personnaly think that EPF involvement in share market has helped in large extend to prevent any disaster under present weak market conditions. Let EPF Management to handle their investment decisions and we can look after our interest.

57EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:03 am

Business Basil


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@Rajaraam wrote:Pl. do not misunderstand me. Why should we worry about EPF investment decisions? I realy cant understand. There is a management body in EPF and may be they are looking for long term benefits rather than earning quick money. Anyway that is their business and I personnaly think that EPF involvement in share market has helped in large extend to prevent any disaster under present weak market conditions. Let EPF Management to handle their investment decisions and we can look after our interest.

Poor working population's savings making Cabba a millionaire....understand the 'Kick Backs'.

That is why work force in the country should worry. Exclamation

58EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:38 am

Slstock

Slstock
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics
@Business Basil wrote:
@Rajaraam wrote:Pl. do not misunderstand me. Why should we worry about EPF investment decisions? I realy cant understand. There is a management body in EPF and may be they are looking for long term benefits rather than earning quick money. Anyway that is their business and I personnaly think that EPF involvement in share market has helped in large extend to prevent any disaster under present weak market conditions. Let EPF Management to handle their investment decisions and we can look after our interest.

Poor working population's savings making Cabba a millionaire....understand the 'Kick Backs'.

That is why work force in the country should worry. Exclamation

I still stand by what I said about EPF Overall management of funds and the returns we got in the past. But yes Kick backs are something to be concerned about.

I am waiting for EPF annual report for 2010 to see for more details of their policies and what they say. I am wondering whether to write to some CB/EPF big shot about more trasparency as it is a public fund.

59EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:17 am

econ

econ
Global Moderator
Under current administration, every thing seems to be highly politicized.
It seems their main priority is not maximized workers future benefits but short term benefits for government. Good example is private sector pension bill that was introduced recently.

60EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:33 pm

salt

salt
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@Academic wrote:
@duke wrote:I think holding companies should go around a PE ratio of 10 because they're just a holding company. That means it should come around half its current value.

Yes. Largely diversified holdings should be subjected to "Conglomeration Discount" in calculating their fair value. Thus PE should be lower.

This is not happening in Sri Lanka.

One thing, domestic market is too small for any product speclized comopny

61EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:20 am

UKboy

UKboy
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Just wanted to give my utmost thank to all of you guys (Think9, Duke, Chinwi, Academic, Aladdin, Xhora, econ, slstock, factfinder, Moneylover etc) who involved in this discussion. This is undoubtedly one of the best discussions I ever seen in this forum.
Well done guys. This is one of the very very few topics I read more than once & 100% deserved to be in the expert chamber...
( 1st time in my history I used all available + reps in a single day and these guys deserved it.)

62EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:26 am

enthush


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
@xhora wrote:It was proven in a TV political discussion that when last year stock market grown about 90+% return on investments to EPF fund was only about 4% what a waste.


"Members of the Employment Provident Fund (EPF) will be paid the highest first ever interest rate of 13.75 percent, for their contribution with effect from 2009, the Labour Relations and Productivity Promotion Ministry announced.
This is a 0.55 percent increase above the previous rate of 13.20 percent for 2008."

know what ur writing before u get along the stream of misleading public..

63EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:14 pm

enthush


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
@Think9 wrote:@ eeyohan : I think i ve to teach u how EPF and ETF works until we get retire.. but well........... u knw! i cant waste time..

but just an economy lesson :

when you HOLD.

Hold = saving = economy leakage. When economies is not circulating well, the growth is pretty less. That wats happening in developing countries. so it consumers / gvmnts resposibility to make sure things money get circulated .

example : By the time SPEN reach 300 , I can buy and sell in different levels and gain more than 1000% profits.. and if the gvt has done the investments properly Im sure they would ve developed the country more. At least to cover the huge loss gvt get from water board .lol. but in terms of business, i called it " Poor investment strategies " .


well in my point of view..its not economics that matters here the most, but fund management basics. according to u entire funds need to be managed in the form of a trading portfolio and for a retirement scheme i believe its a joke.EPF maintaing a trading portfolio for about Rs.100 billion and engaging in daily trading to seek gains as u suggested, will rock the CSE every now n then.needless to say if thats the case, they can easily make the market while retail investors will have no option but take the prices.
besides no retirement funds maintian a full trading portfolio. cos the theory has it, long term high return. if pension funds manage the funds the way u ask them to, CSE will be hell for retialers so will the return be for memebrs of the funds.

64EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:22 pm

Think9

Think9
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
you have taken it in a wrong way.. im not sayin for a trading portfolio. you just have gone little bit out of the topic.

I`m sayin even a company or a institute invest on shares they should ve a proper plan. coz ASI is a curve . curve reach high and again fall down after 2 or 3 year or like that.. then again up.. so when your investing need to be much careful about the price of the share in particular and whats the stage of the ASI cycle.. If both indicated green that's the best or either one them should be there.

Anyway if u have time download SLIC annual report and check their gain on invest income and the shares they have invested. So far SLIC is one of ma best strategic companies when it come for investing.

Recent investments of SLIC : HVA / TESS . ..

Im not sayin EPF doing bad but they couldn have invested more wisely bn one of the institutes hold huge bulk of money. but one thing to say!! ! there new investments re quite impressive.


65EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:59 pm

WildBear


Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
@salt wrote:
@Academic wrote:
@duke wrote:I think holding companies should go around a PE ratio of 10 because they're just a holding company. That means it should come around half its current value.

Yes. Largely diversified holdings should be subjected to "Conglomeration Discount" in calculating their fair value. Thus PE should be lower.

This is not happening in Sri Lanka.

One thing, domestic market is too small for any product speclized comopny

conglomeration discount is widely considered as a market inefficiency, that means it should not really exist. Even if there is such a thing,it should be around 5% discount.

I think CSE is still too small and immature to apply all these sophisticated theorems...

66EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:05 pm

investor1984

investor1984
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@aladdin wrote:Guys i feel all of u are going on a wrong direction. A fund like EPF is not investing on short or medium. Normally they invest looking at the long run such as 5-10 years of profit realization. In that view what above discussed will not be valid. Many think that the decision made by EPF is wrong because majority is in the set of mind of look at the short run.

But one thing is bit suspicious to me. All the time the seller was same to EPF. May be a core incident. But who knows.

I report u decide.

Agreed , as far as we ( private sector worker ) contribute to these funds they dont have to worry , anyway the return they give to us are very dismal, so they dont have to worry about high returns ( typical government work ) , by the way we should give credit to these 2 funds as i think they saved the market from serious crashes , central bank is using these 2 funds as tools to calm the market when it is on verge of collapsing .

67EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:18 pm

soileconomy

soileconomy
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Y we are talking about negative investments .EPF has already doubled some of their investments .May be as a whole they are in a very safe zone.No one can make profits 100%.
When things go wrong we talk a lot and when they are right no one cares

68EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:05 am

Think9

Think9
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

69EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:29 am

Think9

Think9
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

70EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:37 pm

Think9

Think9
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sinhala/news/story/2011/10/111026_share_market.shtml

""the employees' provident fund (EPF) lost nearly SLR 30 million ($270,000) as a result of such deals in the marker by the government. ""


71EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:07 pm

WildBear


Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Interesting abstracts of a research analysis done by Verité Research on investment of Sri Lankan State controlled pension funds-



ETF has made a return of 26 percent on equity investments while EPF returns stand below 4 percent an Analysis by Verité Research shows that Employee’s Provident Fund’s (EPF)management of equity investments have made low returns in comparison to stock market growth for the corresponding period and in comparison to returns made by the Employees Trust Fund (ETF).

EPF’s investments in the stock exchange has underperformed the All Share Price Index (ASPI), and earned only one-fourth of what it would have earned if the same investment had been placed with the usual no-risk-low-return government securities, where 95percent of the EPF funds are placed.

The investment of the EPF funds is under the supervision of the Monetary Board of the Central Bank.

Historically, the main investments by the Fund have been in Government Securities. This is not without its problems as the EPF has been used as a cheap source of borrowing for the government, at the expense of reasonable returns for the workers.

A study by the Institute of Policy Studies titled “Designing Retirement-Income-Security Arrangements:

Theory, Issues and Applications to Sri Lanka” (de Mel, 2000)showed that the EPF returns had been negative in real terms over a workers career.In 2009, the Monetary Board invested 97.1 percent of the EPF Fund in Government Securities, with a return of 15.70percent, while in 2010, it invested 94.1percent with a return of 14.60 percent. At the same time there was a move to increase the investment in the stock exchange.

In 2009, only 1.3% of the Fund (Rs.9.8 billion), was invested in equities; but in 2010, there was a four-fold increase with 5% of the fund (Rs.43.7 billion) being invested in equities.

The Central Bank has explained this increased investment in equities on the basis that there was a need to diversify investments as returns to government securities were on the decline. The explanation, however, is contradicted by the outcome: the return to the EPF’s investment in equities in 2009 was 3.53percent and in 2010 it was 3.81percent.

If the same investments had been kept in short and long term government securities at the average yield, the EPF would have earned almost 4 times as much it did by investing in equities. In 2009 post civil war, the Sri Lankan stock exchange boomed, and in 2010 it became the best performing stock exchange in the world. The percentage increase of the ASPI in these two years was 125percent and96percent. In that light, how the EPF managed to garner returns of just 3.53percent and 3.81 percentis puzzling in the extreme, and should require a public accounting.

The Employees Trust Fund (ETF), which is managed by the Commissioner of Labour, has also made investments in equities. In contrast to the EPF’s return of 3.81percent the ETF made a return of 26percent on their investment in 2010.The loss to workers as a result of mismanagement of the fund’s investments in equities can be calculated at Rs. 71.2 billion in 2010 alone. More than the absolute amount, the scale of loss is a cause of concern. Where the quantum of investment had an expected market return 73.9 billion based on the ASPI of the stock exchange in 2010, the EPF earned only 1.7 billion: an adverse ratio of 43:1 (that is, if EPF had simply distributed its investment proportionately across all shares in the stock market without any thought or analysis, it would have earned 43 times more than it actually earned with its expert investment decisions).

The stock market is what economists call a “constant sum game”.

That is,the total long term benefits available from the stock market are equal to the actual increase in dividends fromthe underlying stocks. All deviations from this underlying increase in value are “zero sum”: that is, one person’s loss is another person’s gain. Therefore, the huge underperformance of the EFP investment is not without beneficiaries.

http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2012/01/29/fin01.asp

72EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:09 pm

Redbulls

Redbulls
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics
There are some news about EPF investments in CSE.
Now do we can think they have good statergy?

73EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:18 pm

Monster

Monster
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
LGL voting share is currently trading at around Rs 24 - Rs 26. Unrealized loss from this transaction is nearly 50% from this transaction, which is around 800 million. Twisted Evil

74EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:01 pm

thighrokker


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Sunday11

75EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:15 pm

Fresher


Moderator
Moderator
EPF had entered at a wrong time into those investments. As a very long term fund, it can hold onto these for quite a long time.
Agreed that the unrealized loss is huge and whether price will reach previous levels or not is a doubt. But one has to remember it has made a lot of money as well.

I think everyone is talking about it's losses just like people complain about their losses but keep quiet and enjoy when they have a good time with rising prices.

76EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:34 pm

aj


Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Remember what happened to the rupee value. The central bank were defending the currency with foreign reserves. But you can't do that every day, every week, every month. There is a limit. So what happens when the EPF buying stops...
Anyway who cares about the pension money of the fools.

77EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:56 am

econ

econ
Global Moderator
we need independent central bank. current central bank under kabral is just a another government department.

78EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:54 am

WildBear


Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
@econ wrote:we need independent central bank. current central bank under kabral is just a another government department.
Yes, now we have come to the real point. Kabral is a chartered accountant by precession. He may be suitable to be come the auditor general, but sure not to be the head of central bank. Sri Lanka has suffered and suffering a lot with wrong people in wrong position.central Bank governor should be derived within the bank staff it self or with experience in a body like IMF.He should be an economist rather than a accountant.what to do, poor Sri Lanka
,
Sad

79EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:46 pm

rijayasooriya

rijayasooriya
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
අර්ථසාධක අරමුදල්
කොටස්‌ වෙළෙඳපොළේ ආයෝජනය කළේ නෑ

- මහ බැංකු අධිපති කියයි



ශ්‍යාම් නුවන් ගනේවත්ත

පසුබෑමට ලක්‌ වී ඇති කොටස්‌ වෙළෙඳපොළ බේරා ගැනීමේ අරමුණෙන් සේවක අර්ථසාධක අරමුදල්, කොළඹ කොටස්‌ වෙළෙඳපොළේ ආයෝජනය නොකළ බව ද එය මුළුමනින්ම අසත්‍ය චෝදනාවක්‌ බව ද ශ්‍රී ලංකා මහ බැංකුවේ අධිපති අජිත් නිවාඩ් කබ්රාල් මහතා ඊයේ (19 දා) "දිවයින" ට පැවසීය.

සුදුසු ආයෝජන තීරණ මත අර්ථසාධක අරමුදල් කොටස්‌ වෙළෙඳපොළේ ආයෝජනය කරන්නේ එම අරමුදලේ සාමාජිකයන්ට ඉහළ ප්‍රතිලාභ ලාබදීමට බව ද මහ බැංකු අධිපතිවරයා අවධාරණය කළේය.

කොටස්‌ වෙළෙඳපොළ බේරාගන්න අර්ථසාධක අරමුදලේ සල්ලි යොදන බවට මහ බැංකුවට නැගී ඇති චෝදනාව පිළිබඳව "දිවයින" කළ විමසුමකට පිළිතුරු දෙමින් මහ බැංකු අධිපතිවරයා මේ බව කීවේය.

"මේක සම්පූර්ණ අසත්‍ය චෝදනාවක්‌. නියමිත වෙලාවේදී අපි කොටස්‌ මිලදී ගැනීම සහ විකිණීම කරනවා. සමහර කොටස්‌ දිගුකාලීන ආයෝජන තීරණ මත වගේම තවත් සමහර කොටස්‌ කෙටිකාලීනව ගනුදෙනු කිරීමේ අරමුණෙන් මිලදී ගන්නවා. අපේ ඉහළ දැනුමක්‌ තිබෙන ආයෝජන උපදේශකයන් විසින් එම ආයෝජන තීරණ ගන්නවා. ඒක කරන්නේ පසුබෑමට ලක්‌වී ඇති කොටස්‌ වෙළෙඳපොළට තල්ලුවක්‌ දෙන්න නොවේ. මිල වැටිච්ච වෙලාවෙදී කොටස්‌ ගන්න ඕන. එය නුවණට හුරු කටයුත්තක්‌ බව ද මහ බැංකු අධිපති අජිත් නිවාඩ් කබ්රාල් මහතා තවදුරටත් "දිවයින" ට කීවේය.


http://www.divaina.com/2012/02/20/news32.html

80EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:02 am

enthush


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
@WildBear wrote:Interesting abstracts of a research analysis done by Verité Research on investment of Sri Lankan State controlled pension funds-



ETF has made a return of 26 percent on equity investments while EPF returns stand below 4 percent an Analysis by Verité Research shows that Employee’s Provident Fund’s (EPF)management of equity investments have made low returns in comparison to stock market growth for the corresponding period and in comparison to returns made by the Employees Trust Fund (ETF).

EPF’s investments in the stock exchange has underperformed the All Share Price Index (ASPI), and earned only one-fourth of what it would have earned if the same investment had been placed with the usual no-risk-low-return government securities, where 95percent of the EPF funds are placed.

The investment of the EPF funds is under the supervision of the Monetary Board of the Central Bank.

Historically, the main investments by the Fund have been in Government Securities. This is not without its problems as the EPF has been used as a cheap source of borrowing for the government, at the expense of reasonable returns for the workers.

A study by the Institute of Policy Studies titled “Designing Retirement-Income-Security Arrangements:

Theory, Issues and Applications to Sri Lanka” (de Mel, 2000)showed that the EPF returns had been negative in real terms over a workers career.In 2009, the Monetary Board invested 97.1 percent of the EPF Fund in Government Securities, with a return of 15.70percent, while in 2010, it invested 94.1percent with a return of 14.60 percent. At the same time there was a move to increase the investment in the stock exchange.

In 2009, only 1.3% of the Fund (Rs.9.8 billion), was invested in equities; but in 2010, there was a four-fold increase with 5% of the fund (Rs.43.7 billion) being invested in equities.

The Central Bank has explained this increased investment in equities on the basis that there was a need to diversify investments as returns to government securities were on the decline. The explanation, however, is contradicted by the outcome: the return to the EPF’s investment in equities in 2009 was 3.53percent and in 2010 it was 3.81percent.

If the same investments had been kept in short and long term government securities at the average yield, the EPF would have earned almost 4 times as much it did by investing in equities. In 2009 post civil war, the Sri Lankan stock exchange boomed, and in 2010 it became the best performing stock exchange in the world. The percentage increase of the ASPI in these two years was 125percent and96percent. In that light, how the EPF managed to garner returns of just 3.53percent and 3.81 percentis puzzling in the extreme, and should require a public accounting.

The Employees Trust Fund (ETF), which is managed by the Commissioner of Labour, has also made investments in equities. In contrast to the EPF’s return of 3.81percent the ETF made a return of 26percent on their investment in 2010.The loss to workers as a result of mismanagement of the fund’s investments in equities can be calculated at Rs. 71.2 billion in 2010 alone. More than the absolute amount, the scale of loss is a cause of concern. Where the quantum of investment had an expected market return 73.9 billion based on the ASPI of the stock exchange in 2010, the EPF earned only 1.7 billion: an adverse ratio of 43:1 (that is, if EPF had simply distributed its investment proportionately across all shares in the stock market without any thought or analysis, it would have earned 43 times more than it actually earned with its expert investment decisions).

The stock market is what economists call a “constant sum game”.

That is,the total long term benefits available from the stock market are equal to the actual increase in dividends fromthe underlying stocks. All deviations from this underlying increase in value are “zero sum”: that is, one person’s loss is another person’s gain. Therefore, the huge underperformance of the EFP investment is not without beneficiaries.

http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2012/01/29/fin01.asp


oh what a joke is this?? who writes these rubbish articles?????
problem in this country is journalists can write any nonsense and be untouchable.

ETF is talking in terms of unrealized gains which when i worked out on EPF portfolio is around 43%.
end of 2010 market value was about 60 B and cost about 40 B.

81EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:28 pm

gamaya


Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
The stock market is what economists call a “constant sum game”.
That is,the total long term benefits available from the stock market are equal to the actual increase in dividends fromthe underlying stocks. All deviations from this underlying increase in value are “zero sum”: that is, one person’s loss is another person’s gain. Therefore, the huge underperformance of the EFP investment is not without beneficiaries.


So one day may be there could be an investigation as to who are the beneficieries?

82EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Calls for a monitoring mechanism for the EPF on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:02 pm

Redbulls

Redbulls
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics
THURSDAY, 01 MARCH 2012 16:53
The Ceylon Federation of Labour (CFL) has expressed concern on the future viability of the Employees Provident Fund (EPF) if the government continues to ‘fiddle‘with the hard earned savings of workers to bolster the Colombo Stock Market.

CFL President T.M.R. Rasseedin said in a statement that in recent times because of the government's own doings the Colombo bourse dipped to an all time low in transactions and the Government has rescued it from the doldrums by taking easy recourse of using EPF monies to artificially prop up the stock market.

According to its 2010 Report the EPF, has increased its investment in the Colombo Stock Market to Rs 43.7 billion in 2010 from Rs. 9.8 billion in 2009, the highest-ever increase in investment in equities recorded so far. It is a 400% increase in equity investment which is above the permissible limit, the statement said. "We demand the authorities to publish details of investments made in listed and unlisted equities so that the public would know whether the Government has helped out its business cronies by purchasing their shares far above the real value," Mr Raseedin was quoted as saying.
The statement said that the Government must realise that the monies in the EPF belong to workers and not to the Central Bank or the Monetary Board and they cannot be permitted to gamble with the savings of workers.

To ensure prudent investment of these funds that the unions proposed the setting up of a Tripartite Consultative Committee in the draft EPF Amendment Act. The proposal was accepted and the amendment was in fact drafted with the express provision that "The committee shall be charged with the functions of discussing and exchanging views with the Central Bank and the Monetary Board in matters relating to the appropriation and investment of the monies lying to the credit of the fund and other functions as may be prescribed by the Minister for the purposes of this Act."

Strangely this provision has been omitted from the amendment of the EPF Act that was passed recently. The CFL urged the authorities to set up a mechanism that would enable representatives of workers and employers to oversee and monitor the operations of the Fund. "We call upon all trade unions to agitate for such a mechanism as the actions of the fund managers are increasingly becoming unacceptable and threaten the future viability of the fund," the CFL said.
http://sundaytimes.lk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16496:calls-for-a-monitoring-mechanism-for-the-epf-&catid=79:analysis&Itemid=565

83EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:43 pm

Quibit

Quibit
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
This article provides loads of information about poor investments strategies of EPF.

84EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:24 pm

Chinwi

Chinwi
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
I do not think investing in stock market is a bad thing for a fund like EPF, IF it is done genuinely.
-----
මේගොල්ල දැන්ද මේවා දන්නේ ?
ගිය අවුරුද්දේ අපි කොච්චර මේ forum එකේම මේ ගැන කතා කළාද ?
අඩු ගානට එකතු කර ගත්තට පස්සේ නග්ගල EPF එකට විකුණන හැටි ; අපි එකතු කර ගන්න කන් EPF එකේ අපේම යාලුවෝ නිදාගෙන ඉන්න හැටි එහෙම. :-)

85EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies...  - Page 2 Empty Re: EPF/ETF - Poor invesment strategies... on Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:41 pm

mra

mra
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
They are not into investment strategies. deals are getting a cross for certain big sharks own benefit. simple as that.

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