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Sri Lanka Equity Forum » Stock Market Talk » Expert Chamber » Discussion on Alternative Investment

Discussion on Alternative Investment

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41Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:01 pm

sajcolombo


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
Dear kelumhewage,

Thanks for starting a useful discussion like this........

42Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:06 pm

Monster


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
I think there is no harm to discuss these type of matters in this forum. It's very useful for certain members though the discussion is not purely equity investment related. I hope Admin would agree with me.

We used to discuss many (unwanted) stuffs in this forum, such as politics, sports, gossips and many more. I believe this is a useful discussion.

sudee, I admire your knowledge in this sector.

43Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:13 pm

rijayasooriya


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
@sajcolombo wrote:Dear Sudee,

Fist of all i must say BIG THANK YOU for sharing valuable and more practical info.

However it seems this topic is very interesting and useful for many in here...specially to me..Smile

Yes i have to few more to clarify with you..BUT if i'm post more and more questions admin might chase both of us from the forum.

However it is good to have discussion like this and it's very very useful for newcomers for particular field (Plantation)...

Unfortunately i'm not allowed to post you a private message in here.

If you don't mind can i have your e mail id then i can send you through....

Once again A BIG THANK YOU AND HATS OFF FOR YOUR GREAT WORK..

God bless.......



If u can not pm him I think there is no big offence asking it here.I do not think admins will chase u for that.This discussion is realy useful to interested poeple.

44Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:52 pm

manula


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@Sudee wrote:
@manula wrote:@Sudee, thanks for the info.. these short varitey if i am correct called as hybrid plants ?? other thing we can plant intercop like Banana,Papol .. between the cocount trees and one of my friend has plant teak for the fence..from that you can earn extra income...

Yeah yeah, what ever the size of the land, should have teak around it. We normally call it teak fence. That adds extra value to the estate as well.

If inter crops are also under taken, then no of coconut trees has to be abt 70 pa. Other tis hing i have to mention is, if your doing coconut there should be a station person. And if ur thinking of these inter crops, this station person has to be even better. And depending on the extend of these cultivation, additional workers have to be hired. Managing these workers, finding good station person are very difficult.
If you believe that u can handle the man power smartly, then estate management is not difficult.

Yep, they are hybrid varieties.

As what I heard is one strong person is enough for 1 or 2 acres.. with this intercrops ..some pepole as i know is giving some space to the person to grow some thing he like or from profit some precentage..so these pepole are active... and same time i heard conut devlopment board will give fertilzer on subisdary on less than 5 acres.. hope i am correct..mean time i am also serching few acres around 2 to 3 for coconut cultivation.. (another good thing is if you can build a small house can used to as a good place to rest in off days....same time can given to friends and earn some extra income....many ways... Very Happy )

45Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:10 pm

sajcolombo


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
Dear Sudee,

Based on your info i have done the below calculations.

Assumed nuts per bunch -12 and 2 bunches for 6 weeks period

Average nuts per plant per year 12x2x8 =192 if so nuts per acre per year 192x75=14400

Correct me if i'm wrong...Smile

Also need your valuable advise on the below

* What will be the selling method of the crop and selling price of the nut

* fertilization - how many times per year and cost.

* If i'm station a person what will be the wage for a month or is it depends on the land area?

* Irrigation method

I know too many questions....Smile highly appreciate your valuable advises.......

Thanks.....

46Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:31 am

Sudee


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
Hi all,

Thanx for the comments.
I was bit away during the weekend so couldn't reply.

No of teak trees per acre - i think about 250 trees per acre is fine. I have seen some plantation where more than 250 trees per acre are planted, but they are still young, may be at the age between 5-10 yrs. So have to wait for another about 10 yrs to give a conclusion on this. In our case also we have grown it with coconut. So i cant give a precise answer as to what the no of trees per acre should be.

I'l tell you, the best person to contact is forest department. Coz they have enough experience in this, plus, their plantations and the trees are good.
Try - 1920, help desk on agriculture. Through this you will be able to get contact no of relevant forest dept officers.

@ Manula,
Yep, this is also one of the theories of management of workers, where you get them engage on profit sharing basis, give they some land area to do their own cultivation & get some earnings.
Thing is this, none of these theories are proven correct at all the times.

I would share some of my experience as follows.
Even if you think of some other cultivation, there should be adequate water available for that. Coz i'm talking about dry zone. Anyway there are areas like Kurunagala, some inside areas of Galle & Matara, where you can have some water sources & also where coconut can be planted. However, land prices of these areas would be bit high as well.

In my case, there is a lake adjoining the estate. When we bough it, we had to plant many nurseries. So we did that and found a person who was willing to cultivate vegetables there. So asked him to cultivate even the whole land if he wants and get the entire profit. We made a small house as well. Actually he was doing it for some times and weekly we got some fresh vegetables as well.
The main benefit for us was that, as he waters the vegetables, the coconut plants also gets the water & actually the coconut plants in that area came up nicely. He then bought another 2 men (his brother & a friend) for cultivation as he extended it. However, after about one or two months, these three people have had a problem among them and one person had put some poison(pesticide) to the curries while he was cooking. Then they were hospitalized and luckily nothing happen to their lives. However, their after they didn't come back & it was the end of the story.

After some times father bought a tamil family. (im sharing my experience, hoping that you would get some thing out of it) They did nothing other than killing & eating the cocks n hens that were in the estate. So they were simply chased out. after that another two three families were there. They don't stay a long period n will encounter SOME SORT of problem. This is what i wanted to say. We can't predict them.

Even i'm interested at engaging in Eco tourism. We all know that tourism and related industries are developing well. So i hope there will be good prospects in this sector.

I forgot to mention the fertilizer subsidy, when i listed some subsidies available.
Also, i forgot to tell the Coconut development board, where you can get the plants. Its good that u mention it.

I wud share some ideas about harvesting and fertilizer, bit later.

47Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:51 am

manula


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@sudee... ECO tourism also good idea... same time what about some other plantation..due you are already engaged in plantation side... what about Cinnamon.. as i heard in SL we can grow the best quality cinnamon in the world and we are the main exporter.

The tourism sector will be good..but if you seen many coming as budget tourist ..as a package ..every thing arranged through internet.. and not wasting money..many are indian and arab tourist growth we can see these days. Some friends of mine started some apartments in Negambo area like few apartments with swimming pool targeting tourist /free trade managers/sri lankan airliens pilots etc... that also i think good idea.. not very much cost..compared to ECO Tourism project..

48Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:24 am

sajcolombo


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
Dear Sudee,

Thanks for the info....highly appreciates If you could share some info about harvesting and fertilizer, selling method of the crop ......

Thanks...

49Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Thu May 03, 2012 10:07 am

Sudee


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
Hi all,

@Sajcolombo,

Sorry 4 the delay in answering ur questions.....
Fertilizing is done once a year during December raining time. We have two rainy seasons per year, but the December season last long so we fertilize in this season. There are many station persons who put low quantities of fertilizer than that is required and sell the remaining. Not only they steal, but also the trees wont get the correct fertilizer. During my December school vacations father used to send me to the estate to avoid these. However, after that i cudn't engage on these for a long time and actually i can't remember the extract figures now. So i wanted to talk to father, but still cudn't. Anyway next week il give u those infor, mainly the cost.

Normally its about 3 kg per big tree. Earlier we put "pol pohora". This is available in 50kg bags. U must have seen. Recently father purchased the Urea & others separately and mixed them n put. I'l give u these info next week after obtaining them from him.

Anyway, i feel that we must move from these chemicals to organic fertilizer. Currently i'm studying on this. Day by day chemical prices are going up, coz we are importing them. More than that, in the long run these chemicals will destroy our soil........

Harvesting
Usually its done using a long bamboo attached with a knife at the edge of it.
But in some parts of the country men climb the trees and pluck the nuts. Now these ppl are getting scared. Recently CRI conducted training on this as well.
Another thing to mention here, when u use bamboos to pluck them, its difficult if the no of trees are 75 or above. I also recommend to grow between 75 - 80 trees, only if the land is small. Coz then u can find a person to climb & pluck them. But when it comes to big estates with no of acres with number of trees, it's difficult to climb & pluck so you would have to use bamboos. However in India, since there are enough labour available they use climbing method mostly.

Selling
Most convenient method is selling to "Pol Mudalali". If u have a big crop, can go for the auction.

50Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Thu May 03, 2012 11:12 am

UKboy

UKboy
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Sudee. Thanks you very much for all your valuable posts.

51Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Thu May 03, 2012 11:17 am

UKboy

UKboy
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
BTW I have one out of topic type question if anyone knows the answer.

Can we import ebony wood/furnitures to Sri Lanka? Or transport already manufactured ebony furniture within Sri Lanka?
I heard that cut down ebony trees ("Kaluwara") is banned in Sri Lanka.

52Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Thu May 03, 2012 11:34 am

Sudee


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
@ Manula,

Cinnamon of course i don't know. Coz since i'm in dry zone this in not within our reach.
My father does cashew plantation as well. Just like coconut & teak, this is also undertaken in the dry zone. I forgot to mention this earlier plus i'm not aware of this much.
Anyway, i would just compare this with those two plantation like this.

Initial investment: More than teak, but less than coconut
Harvesting: I think after 2-3 years (sooner than coconut)
Maintenance: Easier than coconut, but harder than teak.
Fertilizer: Much lower when compared with coconut
Harvesting: Normally it's done annually. But i think there are new varieties that can be harvested semi - annually.
(If u do in small scale, u have to stay in the estate through out the harvesting season, may be two three months) If you are interest tell me, i would be able to give more detail.

Eco tourism
Most of the hotels in Sri lanka don't like Indians. Sorry, even if there are Indians in this forum. However, there are few good people as well. My experience is that, Indians who stay two or more nights are normally OK. They come to visit SL. As i know, this segment is small.
Most of the Indians come to SL as transit guest. They stay max one night in a hotel near Katunayake or Negombo. This segment is Big & Worst. Plus, Indians are not interested at Eco. They look for luxuries. So if u do an Eco hotel i don't think that u will get Indians & also don't look at that market.

Middle east guests like to visit SL up country than others. Hope u agree with me. What the hotels say is it is better to have some guest at least to B/E. So they look for Middle east market.

On top of this, if your planning to enter foreign tourist market, investment is very high as u want to get at least some stars. ( 2 or 3 at least)
My idea is that its good to start such projects targeting the locals. I see a improvement in travelling, enjoying & relaxing among the Sri lankans now. There is a growing demand for good places.
Thereafter, internet can be used to promote & sell the packages to foreigners, avoiding the tour operators. Once u get establish well, u may look for the charter guests, coz that gives u some assured sales, plus that will give access to high spending markets like Scandinavian & English.

However, when there are foreign guests who stay even the whole season in a beach resort on BB, average stay in an hill country hotel may be well below 10 nights. I believe that even the Eco hotels wont have long stay guests. So need to analyse these scenarios in depth, before moving ahead.

53Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Thu May 03, 2012 12:22 pm

manula


Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics
@Sudee wrote:@ Manula,

Cinnamon of course i don't know. Coz since i'm in dry zone this in not within our reach.
My father does cashew plantation as well. Just like coconut & teak, this is also undertaken in the dry zone. I forgot to mention this earlier plus i'm not aware of this much.
Anyway, i would just compare this with those two plantation like this.

Initial investment: More than teak, but less than coconut
Harvesting: I think after 2-3 years (sooner than coconut)
Maintenance: Easier than coconut, but harder than teak.
Fertilizer: Much lower when compared with coconut
Harvesting: Normally it's done annually. But i think there are new varieties that can be harvested semi - annually.
(If u do in small scale, u have to stay in the estate through out the harvesting season, may be two three months) If you are interest tell me, i would be able to give more detail.

Eco tourism
Most of the hotels in Sri lanka don't like Indians. Sorry, even if there are Indians in this forum. However, there are few good people as well. My experience is that, Indians who stay two or more nights are normally OK. They come to visit SL. As i know, this segment is small.
Most of the Indians come to SL as transit guest. They stay max one night in a hotel near Katunayake or Negombo. This segment is Big & Worst. Plus, Indians are not interested at Eco. They look for luxuries. So if u do an Eco hotel i don't think that u will get Indians & also don't look at that market.

Middle east guests like to visit SL up country than others. Hope u agree with me. What the hotels say is it is better to have some guest at least to B/E. So they look for Middle east market.

On top of this, if your planning to enter foreign tourist market, investment is very high as u want to get at least some stars. ( 2 or 3 at least)
My idea is that its good to start such projects targeting the locals. I see a improvement in travelling, enjoying & relaxing among the Sri lankans now. There is a growing demand for good places.
Thereafter, internet can be used to promote & sell the packages to foreigners, avoiding the tour operators. Once u get establish well, u may look for the charter guests, coz that gives u some assured sales, plus that will give access to high spending markets like Scandinavian & English.

However, when there are foreign guests who stay even the whole season in a beach resort on BB, average stay in an hill country hotel may be well below 10 nights. I believe that even the Eco hotels wont have long stay guests. So need to analyse these scenarios in depth, before moving ahead.

@sudee... yes ECHO tourism also good idea.. as you mentioned i think starting a project targeting local tourism will be a good idea.. I am fully agree with you. But that cost also will be some high and then wages/maintaince etc ..will be extra cost ...and we have to relay on the guest..this is the main factor...
Same time i think best will be teak plantation... i mean for overseas worker like me with little activites.. only we have to look after carefully when the tree is in small days and after 10/15y your profit is guarnateed.
many of my friends worked in overseas started differnt projects.. different type of investments.. this is my thinking only. like to know the ideas wel come...

54Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Thu May 03, 2012 12:30 pm

Sudee


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
@ UKboy,

I'm not aware about importing "Kaluwara". I just referred the import custom duty guide line 2011 and according to that Ebony can be imported without a control licence, and at zero duty... Only VAT, PAL & NBT.

In SL, it is illegal and not permit will be issued neither to cut down nor transport Kaluwara. Keeping it as timber in a furniture making shop or keeping furniture made out of Kaluwara in a furniture show are even illegal according to my knowledge. But then, if you can import timber, this is a contradict???

There are furniture vendors who claim this is Kaluwara n sell at premium prices. There are some other woods which has a black core and hence using a good finishing they can also be made to look like Kaluwara.

However, in the current Srilankan context, it is not so difficult to sell even the real Kaluwara furniture (made out of trees cut in SL) in shops as well. Coz our police and forest officers are as such.

55Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Sat May 12, 2012 1:40 pm

Monster

Monster
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

56Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Sat May 19, 2012 1:45 pm

UKboy

UKboy
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Hi Sudee Thank you very much for your explanation on Ebony wood. Yes looks like the laws are a bit contradict Rolling Eyes
Cheers

57Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Sat May 19, 2012 7:13 pm

Backstage

Backstage
Moderator
Moderator
Hi Sudee,
A friend has some 30 year old teak trees in Wariyapola that he wants to sell, he says the trees don't have a very large girth but has plenty of aratuwa. The local buyers are said to be offering low prices and he doesn't know how to find other buyers. Would be much obliged if you can give some pointers.

BTW he had planted about 400 trees to an acre and has done minimum maintenance. Could this be the factor for the reduced girth ? he is also in the low rainfall area of Wariyapola.

58Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Mon May 21, 2012 11:03 am

Sudee


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
@backstage,

Are you sure that he has planted 400/acre?
Normally it should be about 200...
It's very simple, the tree won't get the required amount of sun rays.
I think the trees must be very tall? (due to this condition)
Anyway, can u give the measurement of the girth? (take this measurement at about 7 feet height from the ground)
And the price those vendors are offering? So that i would be able to tell whether it's reasonable.

Has he contacted Moratuwa vendors?
How many trees is he planning to sell? Based on the number i would be able to suggest you vendors.

If trees are matured well as you have told, the girth is not a big issue. I mean, if it is 30 years old, it should have some reasonable girth.

59Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Mon May 21, 2012 12:43 pm

FALCON

FALCON
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic
Dear Sudee

Where can i buy the sandal wood plants?

thanks

60Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Tue May 22, 2012 10:13 am

stumpy

stumpy
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@Sudee wrote:@backstage,

Are you sure that he has planted 400/acre?
Normally it should be about 200...
It's very simple, the tree won't get the required amount of sun rays.
I think the trees must be very tall? (due to this condition)
Anyway, can u give the measurement of the girth? (take this measurement at about 7 feet height from the ground)
And the price those vendors are offering? So that i would be able to tell whether it's reasonable.

Has he contacted Moratuwa vendors?
How many trees is he planning to sell? Based on the number i would be able to suggest you vendors.

If trees are matured well as you have told, the girth is not a big issue. I mean, if it is 30 years old, it should have some reasonable girth.

Looks like he hasn't done Thinning Process properly!
Properly managed plantation is having 160 trees per acre after 18 years!
400 is way too high number for a commercial teak plantation with 30 year old trees!
So... Sudi, in this case dbh or girth must be lower than usual!
Really sorry for your friend Backstage!

61Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Tue May 22, 2012 10:30 am

Sudee


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
Sorry, i have no much idea about sandal wood.
Anyway, you may try following places.

Department of Ayurveda +94 11 2896911 / +94 11 2896911
Agriculture info help line 1920
Forest Department 0112866631, 0112866632, 0112875540

BTW, how many plants you want?
If it's small number i may b able to suggest u private vendors who plant them in small scale.



62Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Tue May 22, 2012 10:34 am

Sudee


Equity Analytic
Equity Analytic
@stumpy,

Yep ur correct.
Anyway, lets see what we can suggest to his friend.

63Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Tue May 22, 2012 12:52 pm

stumpy

stumpy
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@BS >
Rainfall @ Wariyapola is more than enough for Teak!

@Sudi
My suggestions>

1 > Selling the land with tress for an unknown party Razz Just kidding... as usual! lol!

2 > Trying to find a buyer who wants "Aratuwa" > than "Wata Adi"
(who know the real value of heart than the outer appearance Razz eth ehema evun hoyana eka thamai amaaru! coz, this is a business)

3 > Trying to find a direct supplier to Moratuwa or may be to an Exporter!

4 > mm.... I'll PM if I get another crazy idea! Very Happy

@Sudi
I forgot to mention!
I've gone through the entire thread with much interest!
I respect ur extensive knowledge n experience regarding coconut plantations!
Hoping to have some consultations sooner than later Very Happy

64Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Tue May 22, 2012 1:22 pm

Backstage

Backstage
Moderator
Moderator
Passed the information to my friend,who said he will measure the girth and tell me.
His main crop is coconut with some mango and Cashew. At the time of planting he the forest dept guys had told him to plant 10 feet apart which he had done,(is that how you get 200/acre?) but just left them to grow without thinning or any type of maintenance(my friend is not the most dynamic person around). So its a teak jungle with a lot of smaller trees growing in between and not a plantation.
He now tells me that he hasn't actually asked the local buyers as they then start harassing him and coming daily to see the trees.(that's not what he said when he was with his wife) So he is a bit of a reluctant seller with his wife pushing him to sell to improve their cash flow.
Thanks Sudee/Stump for taking the time, will post when he gets back to me.I too am looking for some trees as I am building a house.

65Discussion on Alternative Investment - Page 3 Empty Re: Discussion on Alternative Investment on Tue May 22, 2012 2:09 pm

stumpy

stumpy
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Oh! no! It's called Social Forestry plus Family commitments Razz

Initial spacing for planting teak stumps is 3m x 3m after land preparations!
After that we have to follow pruning & general plantation management practices!

Then we have to do pre-commercial thinning after 8 - 12 years which don't have a timber value! Usually we're doing a commercial thinning (which has a timber value) after 18 years depending on factors such as geography, rainfall & demand etc! By that time we'll only have 160 trees per acre! Final felling is done 22-25 years in commercial plantations!

@Backstage wrote:
He now tells me that he hasn't actually asked the local buyers as they then start harassing him and coming daily to see the trees.
Oh! Kunu kollayata "Purchasing Trees" is a very common practice in our country Razz

+ Lack of knowledge is a major concern! Very Happy

I'm more than happy to learn Agro-Forestry stuff! he he!

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