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Sri Lanka Equity Forum » Stock Market Talk » Expert Chamber » A walk down memory lane .....

A walk down memory lane .....

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61A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 7:13 am

Bond


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?

You have just confirmed what I said. VONE is just a holder of apparels, LB Finance and Rocell. It's minority investments are in banks.

Holding firms add value by getting dividends and setting up businesses. This is what happened at Carsons.
But DP who holds 800 million shares prefers to pay out those dividends at 0.3 per share

I will invest in vone the day he starts to use those profits to set up businesses under vone. 500 m rupees goes a long way and there are many ways he can expand by using this money

Instead he pays tax at multiple levels multiple times. Why can't you see this?


Perhaps if DP was smarter he would get TILE SAMP LBFINANCE ROCELL to buy his entire stake in Vone. Then he will exit Vone with 20 billion rupees but still control these firms. Through a personal holding and directorship. Just like Carsons Razz

62A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 7:53 am

smallville


Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?

We cant shift mentalities.. I learnt it the hard way.. The idea of this forum is to educate each other, especially we have a social responsibility to safeguard the investor crowd in SL I believe. New comers to be given a doze of our knowledge to not to fall into traps.. So we talk about many shares and highlight our views and anyone who reads the posts can also see whose saying what..

Its up to the readers to decide whether VONE is an emerging giant or not.. Its up to them to decide whether they wanna try 500 shares in VONE.. Its totally up to them to analyse whether what we talk in here is valid or not.. After all everyone got brains that they can use for a minute Wink

So we cannot stop ppl being negative or positive about specific counters.. Time will decide..

As we speak, what BOND has expressed is also a valid point... The money should be smartly used at the growth stage rather than allocating good dividends.

63A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 7:57 am

stocks hunter


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
Its coming under diversified holdings sector. as per u purchasing JKH is not a good idea? investing in CARS is not a good idea. investing CTHR is risky?

JKH issued at Rs 10 was not a favourite among locals when it was trading around Rs 50 levels. CARS was also like that and CTHR also followed that. Just see their position today. companies in the diversified sector always trade at a premium. Their value increases day by day as per the performance of its holding companies.

dividends are only a minor income for holding companies.

not necessary to argue. u keep a copy of my advise in ur desktop and I will keep ur advice in my desktop. we can see what will happen in future. game close.

correction - green water ownership ( hotel project) - 100%

since DP owns majority he will continuously add value to VONE.

Now DP owns almost close to 50% in HAYL as well. may be he might bring the HAYL under VONE in future as well. WHO KNOWS?

64A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 8:07 am

Slstock


Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics

There is some truth in what you say. Also one should analyze and see whether any of the individual companies RCL,LFIN, SAMP can give better return than VONE to an investor. Will they grown their assets/nav and earning at a faster rate. ( something to thin k about)

Anyway Bond.


But for benefit of others i think it is better you explain more what you mean by setting up a bussines vs having existing businesses under the portfolio. Also better to compare JKH/CARS with VONE to say why VONE is different than others.



@Bond wrote:
@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?

You have just confirmed what I said. VONE is just a holder of apparels, LB Finance and Rocell. It's minority investments are in banks.

Holding firms add value by getting dividends and setting up businesses. This is what happened at Carsons.
But DP who holds 800 million shares prefers to pay out those dividends at 0.3 per share

I will invest in vone the day he starts to use those profits to set up businesses under vone. 500 m rupees goes a long way and there are many ways he can expand by using this money

Instead he pays tax at multiple levels multiple times. Why can't you see this?


Perhaps if DP was smarter he would get TILE SAMP LBFINANCE ROCELL to buy his entire stake in Vone. Then he will exit Vone with 20 billion rupees but still control these firms. Through a personal holding and directorship. Just like Carsons Razz

65A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 8:09 am

traderathome


Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
@stocks hunter wrote:@ smallville

U r correct sir. But what I don't like is without nothing people go against good shares. still they like to play with craps. Yes VONE is one of my favourite stocks. But not only that I got CFLB,AEL,COMB,LOLC,ALUF,GLASS,CFIN,TWOD etc....in my portfolio. some are short and some are for long.

what my argument is people who know the mkt should educate poor investors to invest in future value counters like VONE. That is not happening here. Just see some people think its an apparel company and still investing in CSE.

WHAT we should do is to have VONE at least 500 shares in every persons portfolios for long term benefits. Am I correct?
500 not enough bounce need more say 10 to 25 thousand min. Smile

66A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 8:12 am

traderathome

traderathome
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
VONE giving Good Entry Point around 18-19.5 Areas for a 5-0 Pattern...If you can collect @ these levels then wait for exit signal to unload Very Happy

67A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 8:14 am

Slstock

Slstock
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics
think he is not talking about short term trading. He is talking about several year investment.



@traderathome wrote:VONE giving Good Entry Point around 18-19.5 Areas for a 5-0 Pattern...If you can collect @ these levels then wait for exit signal to unload Very Happy

68A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 8:25 am

smallville

smallville
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Bottom-line improvements of RCL may benefit VONE but it adds more value to RCL's own growth. VONE may benefit from the increased amounts of dividends of RCL (if they give)
Given the scenario that tile market is a monopoly, RCL can come up as the market leader.

69A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 11:28 am

chamith

chamith
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
Assistant Vice President - Equity Analytics
@smallville wrote:VONE may benefit from the increased amounts of dividends of RCL (if they give)

Small,
Even if RCL decided not to give dividends for next 10 years, VONE benefits. Its not only RCL's Dividend that counts as income for VONE. In group accounts, the group accounts for the profit from subsidiaries attributable to parent in proportionality to its holding %. In other words irrespective of dividends, All of RCL's profit will be in VONE Books, and 50% will be deducted as Non Controlling interest.

Bone,
It's totally wrong what you mention about, getting subsidiaries (RCL, LFIN etc) to buy parent's (VONE) shares and then intend to control the subsidiaries still.

70A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 11:57 am

Bond


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
I will answer the above questions with the following. For Vone to be successful it needs to reinvest those hefty dividends by building its own businesses.

DPs recent acquisitions have been at a higher price and to date the best acquisition was Orit Apparel.

The most expensive acquisition was Delmege which was at 2b followed by SAMP LBFINANCE and Rocell at there 52 week highs or there abouts.

Regardless of the loss Vone can still improve if it invests those dividends wisely. Distributing it results in corporate tax at 2 levels and personal tax at individual level.

DP can do many things..... He could invest in sugar which we import at annual cost of 50 billion.


Rocell and other investments can invest in Vone thorough there own subsidiaries. Not directly but through own subsidiaries.


Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


71A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 12:05 pm

The Alchemist


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@Bond wrote:

Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


What do you want to know James Smile

72A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 12:29 pm

Bond


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
@The Alchemist wrote:
@Bond wrote:

Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


What do you want to know James Smile

Have you got the old shareholder register of Carson related firms? Love to know who bought who first .... Was it Bukit or Carsons?

I suspect Bukit was initially controlled and then it bought Carsons .... that is instead of giving funds to minority shareholders it solidified the strength of a controlling shareholder

73A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 12:53 pm

Chinwi

Chinwi
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
I agree with this and that was the reason I kept VONE away from me.

@Bond wrote:DPs recent acquisitions have been at a higher price and to date the best acquisition was Orit Apparel.

The most expensive acquisition was Delmege which was at 2b followed by SAMP LBFINANCE and Rocell at there 52 week highs or there abouts.

Somehow, I feel VONE is still trading at current low prices due to the same reason. With time, it will gradually reach to a better valuation when its high priced susbs perform well and add value.
Some times we may regret not buying it at current prices.

74A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 1:50 pm

Backstage

Backstage
Moderator
Moderator
What about DP/NP overt political patronizing ? They all do it but you wouldn't find Hari Selvanathan or Susantha Rathnayake being appointed deputy ministers or doing the cha cha with Namal Rajapaksa. So when you talk about long term, there are other aspects that also come into consideration.

75A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 2:59 pm

The Alchemist


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
@Bond wrote:
@The Alchemist wrote:
@Bond wrote:

Anyway sorry Alchemist for hijacking this thread. Any news on my question on Carsons and Bukit?


What do you want to know James Smile

Have you got the old shareholder register of Carson related firms? Love to know who bought who first .... Was it Bukit or Carsons?

I suspect Bukit was initially controlled and then it bought Carsons .... that is instead of giving funds to minority shareholders it solidified the strength of a controlling shareholder

No, I dont have any old shareholder register of Cars & Buki.

What i know is the following -

Carsons 60-70 % & RIT 20-30 % owned the original 5 Malaysian Palm Oil Estate Companies i.e. Selinsing, Goodhope, Indo-Malay, Shalimar-Malay & Bukit Darah.

Shalimar Malay owned approx 40 % of Carsons & Bukit Darah owned approx 20 % of Carsons, through its wholly held subsidiary Federal Securities.

In 1996, The above 5 companies (along with Carsons) formed an Investment Company called Shalimar Developments Bhnd registered in Indonesia and invested & ventured out into Indonesia and started their first Plantation called PT Agro Indomas.

In 2003, Bukit Darah sold its Malaysian estate for approx usd 35 Million and invested part money in another plantation in Indonesia called PT Agro Bukit (along with Shalimar Developments). At the same time, Shalimar Malay sold its 40 % stake in Carsons part to Buki and Part to Selvanathan Holding Companies.

In 2009, RIT sold its (20-30 %) stakes in Selinsing, Indo-Malay, Shalimar & Goodhope to newly formed Singapore Plantation Holding Company called GoodHope Asia Holdings (GHAHL).
Buki & Carsons also transferred all their plantation holding shares to Goodhope Asia in exchange for shares.

Now, GHAHL is the Groups Plantation Holding Company.
Carsons owns approx 53 % of GHAHL, Buki owns 35 %, and Rim Capital owns 12 %.
Buki owns approx 45 % of Carsons.
RIT owns 20.2 % of Buki
Guar & Cinv owns 100 % of RIT. (Guar owns 64 % of Cinv)
Carsons owns 67 % of Guar.


76A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 3:20 pm

sriranga

sriranga
Co-Admin

http://sharemarket-srilanka.blogspot.co.uk/

77A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 3:45 pm

Bond


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
Thanks but I was looking for the time when Grand Central Holdings was sold or nationalised (?). Was the famous Upali a shareholder(?)

It was around that time that Sri Krishna Corporation started buying into Carsons ie after Upali's death.

I was once told about Upali Berhad that owned the Kuril Plantations acquired all the plantations under Grand Central. Was this the coffee plantation that Carsons had. Is that today's Shalimar Malay?

Book below tells a different story (?). Upali Investments was sold to Grand Central. Perhaps this happened after his death

Overseas Corporate Structures, Which Hide 'real Owners': Foreign Business By Nihal Ameresekere (2012)........... just google book search

78A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 3:59 pm

Gaja


Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@ Bond,

Is the Upali's stake sold to Carsons or other shareholder (i can't recall his name need to check with my uncle) who jointly controlled the company with the Jesuthsan Family sold to Sri Krishna Corporation?

79A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 4:31 pm

Bond


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
To be more clear Carsons owned a firm called Grand Central that was listed in London. It held most of the plantations in lanka and some British plantations in Malay. Theses plantations came under a trust within a holding company... Long story here!

This is what I heard:
This firm was later sold to Upali's Peacock Limited London which also owned his horse. Later it was transferred to Kuril Plantations Hong Kong.

Upali then used to travel often to his plantations in Malay.

From somewhere these plantations were transferred back to Carsons and he sold his stake. This must have happened after he died.

But as I said the above book may make things clearer. I just don't have the time read it.

80A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Mon May 27, 2013 5:05 pm

sriranga

sriranga
Co-Admin
@Bond wrote:To be more clear Carsons owned a firm called Grand Central that was listed in London. It held most of the plantations in lanka and some British plantations in Malay. Theses plantations came under a trust within a holding company... Long story here!

This is what I heard:
This firm was later sold to Upali's Peacock Limited London which also owned his horse. Later it was transferred to Kuril Plantations Hong Kong.

Upali then used to travel often to his plantations in Malay.

From somewhere these plantations were transferred back to Carsons and he sold his stake. This must have happened after he died.

But as I said the above book may make things clearer. I just don't have the time read it.

Read this also
http://help.com/post/24361-upali-wijewardene

http://sharemarket-srilanka.blogspot.co.uk/

81A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Tue May 28, 2013 8:19 am

Chinwi

Chinwi
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Information we have about Late Mr. Upali Wijewardene is very limited and most of the facts are strange and hidden to outer world .

He was the first Asian to own a Learjet , the top class private airplane, used for his business trips around the Globe.
He had thousands of Ha of Cocoa Plantations and Chocolate factories in Malaysia .

Upali's hired a person called Ananda Krishnan to look after his assets in that part of the world.

Ananda Krishnan's parents were migrants from Sri lanka.

Now, he is one of the richest Asian.


A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 1329999917
Located in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, the “Jalan Ampang land” is one of the pricey assets of the Malaysian business magnate Ananda. The property enthusiast built Twin Towers on the massive land and then sold one of the towers to “Petronas” for a twofold price comprising the cost to build both towers and the cost of the land used.


biography: http://www.bornrich.com/ananda-krishnan.html

82A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Tue May 28, 2013 10:19 am

sriranga

sriranga
Co-Admin
@Chinwi wrote:Information we have about Late Mr. Upali Wijewardene is very limited and most of the facts are strange and hidden to outer world .

He was the first Asian to own a Learjet , the top class private airplane, used for his business trips around the Globe.
He had thousands of Ha of Cocoa Plantations and Chocolate factories in Malaysia .

Upali's hired a person called Ananda Krishnan to look after his assets in that part of the world.

Ananda Krishnan's parents were migrants from Sri lanka.

Now, he is one of the richest Asian.


A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 1329999917
Located in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, the “Jalan Ampang land” is one of the pricey assets of the Malaysian business magnate Ananda. The property enthusiast built Twin Towers on the massive land and then sold one of the towers to “Petronas” for a twofold price comprising the cost to build both towers and the cost of the land used.


biography: http://www.bornrich.com/ananda-krishnan.html

The person who took care in Malaysia and Singapore was Murugiah not Ananda Krishnan.
http://help.com/post/24361-upali-wijewardene

http://sharemarket-srilanka.blogspot.co.uk/

83A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Tue May 28, 2013 10:35 am

Chinwi

Chinwi
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
@Sriranga wrote:The person who took care in Malaysia and Singapore was Murugiah not Ananda Krishnan.
http://help.com/post/24361-upali-wijewardene

No no Sri, two persons.

Muru was a SriLankan companion of Upali. Ananda is a Malaysian.

They (Upali's widow & family) are still in contacts with Ananda. Welgamas brought Ananda to buy SLT in 2008.

Ananda's son left all his material fortune and living as a Buddhist monk.

84A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Tue May 28, 2013 10:39 am

sriranga

sriranga
Co-Admin
@Chinwi wrote:
@Sriranga wrote:The person who took care in Malaysia and Singapore was Murugiah not Ananda Krishnan.
http://help.com/post/24361-upali-wijewardene

No no Sri, two persons.

Muru was a SriLankan companion of Upali. Ananda is a Malaysian.

They (Upali's widow & family) are still in contacts with Ananda. Welgamas brought Ananda to buy SLT in 2008.

Ananda's son left all his material fortune and living as a Buddhist monk.

OK good info, Thanks for the clarification.

http://sharemarket-srilanka.blogspot.co.uk/

85A walk down memory lane ..... - Page 4 Empty Re: A walk down memory lane ..... on Tue May 28, 2013 11:04 am

Bond


Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics
Krishnan was wealthy before Upali hit the scene. He owned the Malay Sporting Star .... monopoly on horse betting. You probably realised that there is a reason why I should know this!

And yes his son is a buddhist monk. A few years back on his birthday a few went by private jet to offer Dana.

I wonder what the circumstances were for the sale to Sri Krishna. Possibly the most valuable firm to be incorporated with an address in Kayts.

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