Amãna Bank goes for IPO and listing on the Bourse

Gaudente wrote:according to the linked 2012 AR they have 0.16 EPS and BV of 3.40 rupees. Only an idiot could pay 7 rupees for such crap

The above figures are almost one year back. Probably now they have better ratios, unless they have gone for a share split after 31st Dec. 2012. If NAV has improved to around Rs.5/- offer price of Rs.7/- is reasonable.

Jiggysaurus wrote:This cannot be categorized as a bank, it is more of seetu scheme catering to a specific (whatever) following a (whatever) law.

The CBSL will need to answer why this is being allowed to publicly list. This is a seetu scheme/finance company following an ancient stone age law and catering to a specific (whatever).

Anybody promoting this will need to answer some questions
1) Why is the chairman starting his statement with a religious (whatever) mantharey? Not even BFL or PCH does this in their annual report.
2) Why is a seetu scheme following an ancient barbaric law allowed to raise money from peeple who don't have any knowledge or know the dangers of this law?
3) The employment in this "bank" seems to be based on racism. More than 90% of the directors and senior management are from a specific (whatever). How many Sinhalese and Tamils are employed in this so called bank?

Sorry mate, couldn't find any Sinhalese or Tamil in the shareholder list. But there are some hybrid varieties in the shareholder list.

16. Mr. Mohamed Kali Mudiyanselegedara Seyed Mohamed Rasan 3,500,000 0.4
17. Mr. Rajubudeen Kali Mudiyansalagedara Seyed Mohamed 3,500,000 0.4
18. Mr. Razeek Kali Mudiyanselegedara Seyed Mohamed 3,500,000 0.4

But as this entity is operating on a particular religious concept it's quite normal to have people of that faith as promoters. But after the IPO we may see few guys from other faiths as well.

hariesha wrote:

Gaudente wrote:according to the linked 2012 AR they have 0.16 EPS and BV of 3.40 rupees. Only an idiot could pay 7 rupees for such crap

The above figures are almost one year back. Probably now they have better ratios, unless they have gone for a share split after 31st Dec. 2012. If NAV has improved to around Rs.5/- offer price of Rs.7/- is reasonable.

Further their last rights issue also at Rs.7/-. So after eight months issuing shares at the same price is reasonable providing things not deteriorated in between.

hope it wont be another expo,softlogic,flch,bil????????? be smart guys

hariesha wrote:

Gaudente wrote:according to the linked 2012 AR they have 0.16 EPS and BV of 3.40 rupees. Only an idiot could pay 7 rupees for such crap

The above figures are almost one year back. Probably now they have better ratios, unless they have gone for a share split after 31st Dec. 2012. If NAV has improved to around Rs.5/- offer price of Rs.7/- is reasonable.

I doubt a serious increase in EPS is there for the current year..

Banks are all about PBV multiples.. At an offer price of 7, if NAV is 5, PBV is 1.4 and looks attractive.. Then again, their assets should improve a lot to be closet to 5. The problem is the niche market they operate in.. How much of an improvement are we bargaining for?

On the other hand, we cannot expect any bank to offer a less price either... This is the cheapest bank in offer now.. But still I'm on the fence of their growth.

To me, at 10.20, a financial institute such as COCR is a better bargain than this.. We know their growth and abilities.

Known devil is better than unknown God, I say...

Not to discourage anyone of this IPO - but do ur simple analysis first..

Lets see what our seniors have to say about this too..

smallville wrote:

To me, at 10.20, a financial institute such as COCR is a better bargain than this.. We know their growth and abilities.

Known devil is better than unknown God, I say...

Can you please explain?

Jiggysaurus wrote:This cannot be categorized as a bank, it is more of seetu scheme catering to a specific (whatever) following a (whatever) law.

The CBSL will need to answer why this is being allowed to publicly list. This is a seetu scheme/finance company following an ancient stone age law and catering to a specific (whatever).

Anybody promoting this will need to answer some questions
1) Why is the chairman starting his statement with a religious (whatever) mantharey? Not even BFL or PCH does this in their annual report.
2) Why is a seetu scheme following an ancient barbaric law allowed to raise money from peeple who don't have any knowledge or know the dangers of this law?
3) The employment in this "bank" seems to be based on racism. More than 90% of the directors and senior management are from a specific (whatever). How many Sinhalese and Tamils are employed in this so called bank?

I think you are too late bro.... Because You could have been asked above queries for the ATL.N0000 as well. Those answers should be the answers for the above requested queries. Don't waste your time with these types of silly nonsense. I can answer you but never i will do. Because you are not in a position to understand.

http://www.cse.lk/pdf/amana_pros.pdf

At least the prospectus doesn't have any manthareys or salutations like the AR.
But the prospectus clearly shows that this is a seetu scheme conducted for the benefit of a certain (whatever)


Pages 156-160 of the prospectus clearly show that only a certain (whatever) peeples have only been given shares in this seetu scheme. There is not a single Sinhalese or tamil in that list.
So this seetu scheme which is loss making is now asking money from non cult peeples because they are loss making and can't meet central bank capital requirements?
Since this is a seetu scheme for the benefit of only a certain group this should have been kept as a private company and money should only be raised from peeple who believe in the (whatever) law this is based on.

This IPO is like a butcher shop asking for donations from the village temple in order to expand. (The butcher shop has every right to do business and expand as does Amana Bank but don't trick ill informed retailers into putting their hard earned money into a loss making seetu scheme)

As per my understanding, this bank is not following the general banking laws and practices.

It has to follow the guidelines and laws given in Islam and they have specific units in the bank to monitor it . I have no complains about it whatsoever because I believe and practice co-existent.

My question is,
If I do not believe in a creator God or follow orders given by such a God,  have I got ethical rights to own such an institute which is strongly functioning as per the teachings of such a God ?

When the owners are aware that someone does not believe their God or practice his laws how can they invite such a person to share their wealth ?

Chinwi wrote:
My question is,
If I do not believe in a creator God or follow orders given by such a God,  have I got ethical rights to own such an institute which is strongly functioning as per the teachings of such a God ?

When the owners are aware that someone does not believe their God or practice his laws how can they invite such a person to share their wealth ?

Finally, I've been putting up with attacks from cult members till someone else raised this point.

The reason the owners of this seetu scheme are inviting non-beleivers (infidels or whatever) to share in their scheme is because they are making losses and are unable to meet central bank capital requirements.

Chinwi wrote:
My question is,
If I do not believe in a creator God or follow orders given by such a God,  have I got ethical rights to own such an institute which is strongly functioning as per the teachings of such a God ?

When the owners are aware that someone does not believe their God or practice his laws how can they invite such a person to share their wealth ?

interesting questions, chinwi.

wheather one has the ethical right or not will depend on the individual.    

for eg, say if a buddhist, following the teachings of the Lord Buddha, has no ethical issue in investing in say DIST, then just to be consistent, he should also have no ethical issue in investing in a company that functions on the teachings of a God, he does not believe in.

I guess the owners are free to invite anyone to share their wealth (or lack of it in this case?) !
inviting is one thing. accepting the invitation is quite another !

maybe they have to list due to the Banking Act to list all private banks before a certain date.
i dont think they have an option to remain private due to this listing regulation.
also they dont have an option to pick and chose selectively whom to offer during an IPO.

owners of businesses of other faiths offer their shares to people of other faiths. so buddhists, hindu's and christians owners offer shares in their company to muslim people, in order to share their wealth, and still do not believe in their god. so fair enough for muslim owners to offer share their wealth (or lack thereof) & their shares to people of other faiths & religions who do not believe in their god.  

Hope i've answered your questions.

btw, i have not read the prospectus and not interested one bit in this share.

The Alchemist wrote:
maybe they have to list due to the Banking Act to list all private banks before a certain date.
i dont think they have an option to remain private due to this listing regulation.
also they dont have an option to pick and chose selectively whom to offer during an IPO.

Since these are "god fearing peeples" the ethical solution would be to list via introduction (after doing a private placement among the cult to boost the capital upto central bank requirements)

The reason the owners of this seetu scheme are inviting non-beleivers (infidels or whatever) to share in their scheme is because they are making losses and are unable to meet central bank capital requirements.

Jiggysaurus wrote:

The Alchemist wrote:
maybe they have to list due to the Banking Act to list all private banks before a certain date.
i dont think they have an option to remain private due to this listing regulation.
also they dont have an option to pick and chose selectively whom to offer during an IPO.

Since these are "god fearing peeples" the ethical solution would be to list via introduction (after doing a private placement among the cult to boost the capital upto central bank requirements)

The reason the owners of this seetu scheme are inviting non-beleivers (infidels or whatever) to share in their scheme is because they are making losses and are unable to meet central bank capital requirements.

Dear Admin/Moderators,

This guy(Jiggy) is always writing his comments to mud sling Muslims and their beliefs. This is not the first incident that he is behaving indecently in this forum. Therefore, I bring this notice to the Admin & Moderators to act immediately and give him a warning. If he is still continue the same manner, the temporary ban is a must as you did in the past to some members.

Thank you

Any such warnings should come from non-cult admins/moderators like ville, sls and chinwi. In the past i have been censored by monstrous cult moderators for speaking the truth and highlighting the dangers of cults.

I bring this notice to the Admin & Moderators to act immediately and give glwking a warning for trying to whitewash dangerous IPOs like Amana.

Speaking the truth is not mud slinging. Truth hurts.

Didn't see the prospectus forget about the valuations. I feel this IPO will trade positively in 1st day. I don't think anyone let this IPO to follow SHL and TJL. Big people may push the price...
If this also gonna negative IPO it will not a good image for future IPO's and SEC. So i don't think influenced peoples let it to happen. Im not talking about investing in amana but only trading ...

Jiggysaurus wrote:Any such warnings should come from non-cult admins/moderators like ville, sls and chinwi. In the past i have been censored by monstrous cult moderators for speaking the truth and highlighting the dangers of cults.

I bring this notice to the Admin & Moderators to act immediately and give glwking a warning for trying to whitewash dangerous IPOs like Amana.

Speaking the truth is not mud slinging. Truth hurts.

You have freedom to express your opinion in a decent manner. Amana IPO is not the first time you are behaving in indecent manner. Any news related to Muslims, you are coming with the gun. Hence, it's crystal clear about your intention.

I have no connection with Amana. Still I didn't read the prospectus and I have no idea to invest in this company, to be honest.

Islam strictly says, don't insult other religions. As of a follower of Islam, I never hurt other religions and always respect them and their belief. Truth never hurt. But your intention is to hurt the followers of Islam.

I generally made this request to all admins/moderators. But I am expecting a fair reply from your favorite moderators smallville, slstock or chinwi.

I'll leave the request to the admins.

As for the substance I have to agree with Jiggy and Alchemist.

Had a quick look at the financials and they have turned to losses with not such a good asset-liability match for me to make profits in future.
Also I think 7/- is too much in my opinion given their NAV and we can buy other profitable solid "pure" banks for cheaper price in the secondary market.

While I cannot dispute the facts presented by Jiggy, that does not concern me. As Alchemist said, inviting is one thing, accepting is another. As with earlier IPO's and the recent drought of IPOs I'm guessing there will be enough retailers buying this just to "buy form an IPO"

glwking wrote:

Islam strictly says, don't insult other religions. As of a follower of Islam, I never hurt other religions and always respect them and their belief. Truth never hurt. But your intention is to hurt the followers of Islam.

This is not the Saudi or Afghan equity forum nor are we under the diyabariya law (yet) you cannot come and ask for censorship and special protection for your (whatever).

We have seen how EXPO and Amana are defended and whitewashed by your (whatever) members and we have seen how BFL and PCH were promoted by your (whatever) member.

The same way, in Sri-Lanka we have the right to talk about and ask tough questions about dangerous beleifs and dangerous IPOs.

If you are hurt by criticism on online forums either get a thicker skin or stick to censored forums.

This is already listed in Maldives stock exchange?
With an NAV of Rs.3.4, can anyone tell me the accounting connection with the bank and ATL?

The Alchemist wrote:owners of businesses of other faiths offer their shares to people of other faiths. so buddhists, hindu's and christians owners offer shares in their company to muslim people, in order to share their wealth, and still do not believe in their god. so fair enough for muslim owners to offer share their wealth (or lack thereof) & their shares to people of other faiths & religions who do not believe in their god.

Hope i've answered your questions.

No mate. That was not my point.
I have no concern about the owners and their faiths.
We have no banks under Buddhist , Hindu or Christian laws. This particular bank is Islamic, not (only) the owners.

BTW, I am not against sharia banking. I also believe Interest is sin. Even in SriLankan Buddhist culture, persons who charge interest from others are considered bad. (සල්ලි පොලියට දෙන එකෙක් ).
Many people and companies get bankrupt due to interest trap. More polite way is profit sharing.

---

Making profits by sharia related financial institutes in a non Islamic country is difficult. Majority of the people go for high interest paying normal banks.
Hence, Amana has to pay good returns to the depositors to tally with other banks while charging low interest or profit sharing from debtors. I do not know how they balance this. Even our ATL.N is facing this situation.

In Muslim countries there is no competition and they can thrive.

dont fall for this ! this looks like another nightmare for the investors

Jiggysaurus wrote:At least the prospectus doesn't have any manthareys or salutations like the AR.
But the prospectus clearly shows that this is a seetu scheme conducted for the benefit of a certain (whatever)


Pages 156-160 of the prospectus clearly show that only a certain (whatever) peeples have only been given shares in this seetu scheme. There is not a single Sinhalese or tamil in that list.
So this seetu scheme which is loss making is now asking money from non cult peeples because they are loss making and can't meet central bank capital requirements?
Since this is a seetu scheme for the benefit of only a certain group this should have been kept as a private company and money should only be raised from peeple who believe in the (whatever) law this is based on.

This IPO is like a butcher shop asking for donations from the village temple in order to expand. (The butcher shop has every right to do business and expand as does Amana Bank but don't trick ill informed retailers into putting their hard earned money into a loss making seetu scheme)

He is a sinhala praba. God made a mistake. Lot of innocent people died coz of war, but people like u still alive:evil: 

P/E is 43.75:lol:    

Chinwi wrote:

The Alchemist wrote:owners of businesses of other faiths offer their shares to people of other faiths. so buddhists, hindu's and christians owners offer shares in their company to muslim people, in order to share their wealth, and still do not believe in their god. so fair enough for muslim owners to offer share their wealth (or lack thereof) & their shares to people of other faiths & religions who do not believe in their god.  

Hope i've answered your questions.

No mate. That was not my point.
I have no concern about the owners and their faiths.
We have no banks under Buddhist , Hindu or Christian laws. This particular bank is Islamic, not (only) the owners.

BTW, I am not against sharia banking.  I also believe Interest is sin. Even in SriLankan  Buddhist culture, persons who charge interest from others are considered bad. (සල්ලි පොලියට දෙන එකෙක් ).
Many people and companies get bankrupt due to interest trap. More polite way is profit sharing.

---

Making profits by  sharia related financial institutes in a non Islamic country is difficult. Majority of the people  go for high interest paying normal banks.
Hence, Amana has to pay good returns to the depositors to tally with other banks while charging low interest or profit sharing from  debtors. I do not know how they balance this. Even our ATL.N is facing this situation.

In Muslim countries there is no competition and they can thrive.

I am working for an Islamic Finance Bank in Kuwait since last year, which has total assets of approx US$ 53 billion. Before joining to this bank, I worked for a conventional bank in Kuwait for about nearly 5 years. As I remember around 7 years ago, there was only one Islamic Bank in Kuwait. But now the list has grown up to six.

I disagree with you to the point that in Muslim countries there is no competition to the Islamic Bank. No, still there is a heavy competition with conventional banks. Still National Bank of Kuwait is the largest bank in Kuwait, which is a conventional bank. However, Islamic banking sector is growing aggressively in Kuwait.

I still doubt how Amana Bank is going to compete with conventional banks in Sri Lanka. It can be more practical in ME and Malaysia. Islamic Banking has considerable growth in Sri Lanka too. That's why many conventional banks and financial institutions are operating their Islamic Financial unit (Ex: COMB, LOLC, PLC etc..)

P.S: I am working in IT sector. Therefore, my knowledge in Islamic Banking is very less though I am working for a Islamic Bank.

@ monster ,

Thank you for the information about the competition.
Many banks in Sri Lanka too tried to attract Muslim crowd by introducing Islamic banking. For them, managing the funds with prevailing interest rates is the problem.
I think (not sure) in Middle East the interest rates are low in conventional system also; hence may be easy for Islamic Banks to compete.

In Sri Lanka it will be much difficult to grow for a Islamic bank if we value it by EPS or monitory gains. In long term, they may grow expanding branch network and by influencing the society of their values. They will need backing by big funds for it.

About post IPO,
They may try to keep trading above IPO price. Somehow, I do not think this IPO price is worth compared to prevailing lower prices of other good shares. If no artificial support investors will go for better shares with more promising future.

Anyway, I am not going to apply this IPO. If someone really wants to buy 'Amana', then wait for another few months, this will trade at the floor below 4 Rs..

seek wrote:Anyway, I am not going to apply this IPO. If someone really wants to buy 'Amana', then wait for another few months, this will trade at the floor below 4 Rs..

This is true for most of the IPOs. Let's buy after IPO.

I dont think this is a sheetu scheme like CIFL, or other failed finance companies.
Jiggysaurus, seems to be blab erring thro his ***

Jiggy,

People losing billion of rupees investing in Cse last 3 years. will lose for at least another 2 years.If you can educate the public on this.

If Islam which was founded in 610AD(now1435year old) is a cult religion what about other religons older than that.I know you are not a buddhist.Can you find your cult religon which is also older than islam in this long list?

History Timeline of World Religions and its Founders

2,085 BC. Judaism-Abraham

1,500 BC. Hinduism- no specific founder

560 BC. Buddhism- Gautama Buddha

550 BC. Taoism - Lao Tzu

599 BC. Jainism, Mahavira

30 AD. Christianity –Jesus Christ

50-100 AD. Gnosticism-

150-250 AD. -Modalism (Monarchianism)–Sabellius, Praxeus, Noetus, Paul of Samosata

325 AD. -After being persecuted for almost 200 years Constantine made the Church becomes a legal religion, compromise begins to enter.

590 AD.-Roman Catholicism- Developed after Constantine; Pope Gregory?

610 AD.- Islam- Mohammed

1400 AD.- Rosicrucians-Christian Rosenkreuz (1694 US) Rosicrucians- Master Kelpius, Johann Andrea

1515 AD.- Protestantism- (Reformers) Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin

1650 AD.- Tibetan Buddhism-Dalai Lama

1700 AD.- Freemasony- Albert Mackey, Albert Pike

1760 AD.-Swedenborgism- Emmanuel Swedenborg

1784 AD.- Shakers - Mother Ann Lee

1830 AD.- Mormonism – Joseph Smith

1830 AD.-Cambellites-Alexander & Thomas Cambell, Barton Stone

1838 AD.-Tenrikyo- Miki Maegawa Nakayama

1844 AD.-Christadelphians- John Thomas

1840-45 AD.-Millerites 2nd day Adventists –William Miller then became 7th Day Adventists

1844 AD.-Bahai- Baha'u'llah (Abul Baha)

1845-1870AD.- 7th Day Adventists-E.G. White

1848 AD.-Spiritualism - Kate and Margaret Fox

1870 AD.-Jehovah's Witnesses- Charles Taze Russell

1875 AD.-Theosophical Society- H.P. Blavatsky, Henry Olcott

1879 AD.-Christian Science-Mary Baker Eddy

1889-1924 AD.-Unity School of Christianity- Myrtle Fillmore

1900 AD.-Rosicrucian Fellowship-Max Heindel

1902 AD.- Anthroposophical Society –Rudolf Steiner

1906 AD. -The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World

1914 AD.- Iglesia ni Cristo- Felix Manalo

1914 AD.- Oneness Pentecostalism- Frank Ewart, G.T.Haywood, Glenn Cook

1917 AD.-True Jesus Church. Founders Paul Wei, Lingsheng Chang and Barnabas Chang

1930 AD. -Black Muslims (Nation of Islam) –Wallace D. Fard

1927 AD.- Mind Science- Ernest Holmes

1934 AD.-World Wide Church of God- Herbert W. Armstrong

1935 AD.-Self Realization Fellowship- Paramahansa Yogananda

1954 AD.- Unification Church- Sun Myung Moon

1945 AD. -The Way -Victor P.Wierwille

1948 AD.- Latter Rain –Franklin Hall, George Warnock.

1964 AD.- Eckankar The Ancient Science of Soul Travel (Eck). Founded by Paul Twitchell

1968 AD.- Hare Krishna (US)- Swami Prabhupada

1968 AD.- Children of God- David (Moses) Berg

1945 AD.-United Pentecostal International- Howard Goss, W.T. Witherspoon (can be traced back to 1914)

1944 AD.- Silva Mind Control –Jose Silva

1950 AD.-Urantia Book- Dr. Bill Sadler

1950 AD.-Lafayette Ronald Hubbard published his book Dianetics-SCIENTOLOGY

1954 AD.-Atherius Society (UFO’s)- Dr. George King

1955 AD.- Scientology- L. Ron Hubbard

1958 AD.- Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research- Henry Kinley

1958-1970 AD.- Church Universal and Triumphant –Mark and E.C. Prophet

1958 AD. -Henry Kinley begins (IDMR) the Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research

1959 AD.-Unitariarian Universalist

1960 AD.-Transcendental meditation- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

1960 AD.-Enkankar- Paul Twitchell

1961 AD.- Unitarian Universalism was officially formed.

1965 AD.-Assembly of Yahweh-Jacob Meyer

1966 AD.- Church of Satan –Anton LaVey

1970 AD.-Findhorn Community –Peter and Eileen Caddy –David Spangler

1970 AD.- Divine light Mission- Guru Maharaj Ji

1973 AD.- CARP was established in the United States. [The Collegiate Association for the Research of Principles] to introduce the teachings of un Myung Moon.

1974 AD.-Assemblies of Yahweh-Sam Suratt

1979 AD.-Church of Christ International - Kip McKean

1980 -1982 AD.- Tara Center-Benjamen Crème

1980 AD.- House of Yahweh (Abilene) Jacob Hawkins