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Vallibel One Analysis

+8
Academic
milanka
rijayasooriya
smallville
dragz
wgsaman
xhora
laka
12 posters

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Vallibel One Analysis Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:26 pm

laka

laka
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

Vallibel One Analysis...Comments are welcome.. Basketball
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Last edited by milanka on Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Removed .... from heading)

2Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:53 pm

xhora

xhora
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Good work laka, Like the way you presented both pros and cons of subscription.
Still haven't had a time to go through Prospectus.
But I'll invest in this and Browns IPO Smile

3Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:06 am

wgsaman

wgsaman
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

i also same xhora

4Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:54 am

dragz


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

thanks,

5Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:03 am

smallville

smallville
Associate Director - Equity Analytics
Associate Director - Equity Analytics

Good work laka..
Small clarification, I've seen the below calculation of urs in investments of VOL..
From Investments in Securities - 6910*10% - 690m

But actually those cannot be taken as an investment source for EPS calculation due to it being a "non disclosed income" as you're no booking the profit by selling shares of SAMP I think..

6Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:50 am

rijayasooriya

rijayasooriya
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics
Senior Vice President - Equity Analytics

Nicely summerised.
I want to add that according to their prospectus there is no loans, other borrowings, indebtedness, leasings, lease purchase, hire puchase commitments.
And also there are no mortages or charges on the assets of company.
Furthur to that there is no any guarantees or contingent liabilities.
I think 1st day trading price is >35/=

7Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:52 am

laka

laka
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

Thanks you all
Happy trading... Very Happy

8Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:01 am

laka

laka
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

smallville wrote:Good work laka..
Small clarification, I've seen the below calculation of urs in investments of VOL..
From Investments in Securities - 6910*10% - 690m

But actually those cannot be taken as an investment source for EPS calculation due to it being a "non disclosed income" as you're no booking the profit by selling shares of SAMP I think..

Yap... its stated @ cost...so sd be non disclose income...thanks for highlighting...

9Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:37 am

milanka

milanka
Vice President - Equity Analytics
Vice President - Equity Analytics

Good work @laka.. , + for you.

http://forum.srilankaequity.com/u188

10Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:54 am

Academic


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

I would like to highlight few important things to consider in valuing Vallibel One.

  1. The company is a start up, with just one year old and still we do not have full year consolidated financial statements for the company. Thus any valuation based on EPS is not sound here. One would say BVPS is 20.5 and based on BVPS share is worth 20.5x (2 or 2.5) = 40-50. However note that if the company issued all most all shares at 25 (as Vallibel One did) and do no business, their book value by now is 25 which is higher than current 20.5. The difference is due to loss generated during last years. In nutshell my argument is that Vallibel One can not be valued based on EPS or BVPS. Nevertheless, as the company has established companies as subsidiaries, an analyst can analyze those companies and predict part of Vallibel One's EPS. However the prospectus says the IPO is to finance new projects. Thus what matters here is profitability of new project in the context of Valible One's total portfolio, not just the past.

  2. Goodwill represent 22% 0f total assets. In other words 3.5 billion worth tangible assets have been acquired by paying 14.8 billion, that is paying 422% times of fair value!, amounting a goodwill of 11.2 billion. If this goodwill is real and will generate economic value, then investments would be fruitful. However I doubt a share/company worth 4 times of its fair-value due to two reasons.

    • Current market P/BV is around 3.1 ( this reasoning is gross, as acquirer may have synergies).

    • Fair-value of assets are based on current conditions. Normally fair-value of property plant and equipments (PPE) are higher than cost. Thus if cost is used, the acquired price would be a higher multiple than 4.2 on book value (why they paid so much, either by cash or shares?).

If the company has to recognize impairments on goodwill, there will be huge impact on profit. This is unseen risk factor of the Vallibel One.

Any other views?

P.S. I intended this post for members with a financial background.

11Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:49 am

Slstock

Slstock
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics

Good attempt Laka. + Rep

12Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:29 pm

Slstock

Slstock
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics

Academic wrote:
I would like to highlight few important things to consider in valuing Vallibel One.

  1. The company is a start up, with just one year old and still we do not have full year consolidated financial statements for the company. Thus any valuation based on EPS is not sound here. One would say BVPS is 20.5 and based on BVPS share is worth 20.5x (2 or 2.5) = 40-50. However note that if the company issued all most all shares at 25 (as Vallibel One did) and do no business, their book value by now is 25 which is higher than current 20.5. The difference is due to loss generated during last years. In nutshell my argument is that Vallibel One can not be valued based on EPS or BVPS. Nevertheless, as the company has established companies as subsidiaries, an analyst can analyze those companies and predict part of Vallibel One's EPS. However the prospectus says the IPO is to finance new projects. Thus what matters here is profitability of new project in the context of Valible One's total portfolio, not just the past.

  2. Goodwill represent 22% 0f total assets. In other words 3.5 billion worth tangible assets have been acquired by paying 14.8 billion, that is paying 422% times of fair value!, amounting a goodwill of 11.2 billion. If this goodwill is real and will generate economic value, then investments would be fruitful. However I doubt a share/company worth 4 times of its fair-value due to two reasons.

    • Current market P/BV is around 3.1 ( this reasoning is gross, as acquirer may have synergies).

    • Fair-value of assets are based on current conditions. Normally fair-value of property plant and equipments (PPE) are higher than cost. Thus if cost is used, the acquired price would be a higher multiple than 4.2 on book value (why they paid so much, either by cash or shares?).

If the company has to recognize impairments on goodwill, there will be huge impact on profit. This is unseen risk factor of the Vallibel One.

Any other views?

P.S. I intended this post for members with a financial background.

Academic:

Very good info. + rep.

So there is risk of total asserts going down in the future due to goodwill factor as mentioned also below?

Academic :
1) Can you tell me in general what are early identifiable signs for us ( if any) in the future for such cases where goodwill amount can be negatively effected ?

2) Also VOL paid market prices in Oct 1O for SAMP,RCL,LFIN transfers. How is the goodwill calculated with regard to what they paid? Is it calculated by looking at NAV of each of the subsidiaries and looking at the market prices they paid?



One page 91 is says

"Goodwill acquired in business combination is initially measured at cost being the excess of the cost of the
business combination over the Group‟s interest in the net fair value of the identifiable assets, liabilities and
contingent liabilities. Following initial recognition, goodwill is measured at cost less any accumulated
impairment losses. Goodwill is reviewed for impairment, annually or more frequently if events or changes
in circumstances indicate that the carrying value may be impaired."



13Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:51 pm

laka

laka
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

*As i know Goodwill arises when Acquiring price per share is higher than its NAPS.....Reason is both RCL & LFIN is over valued in the aspect of NAPS (NAPS
*I also think that there are no indicators to impair...as all subsidiaries n investments are running properly and they are in growth phase.
(RCL,LFIN,SAMP)

14Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:53 pm

Academic


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

I'm not motivated (demotivated) by positive (negative) reps. Anyway thanks for the appreciation.

I'm not very familiar with SLAS (I'm not an accountant, so an accountant please correct me if wrong). However, Sri Lanka follows/adopt International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS). According to IFRS goodwill can be recognized either as full or partial. What VOL has done is partial goodwill recognition. I demonstrate partial goodwill recognition below.

Target company's

  • Cost value of total tangible assets (net of liability) 5000
  • Fair value (appraised/market) value of tangible assets (net of liability) 6000
  • 4000 paid to acquire 60%

Goodwill is 4000 - 6000*.6 = 400

Note: Goodwill is not based on historical cost NAV.

6000 become new cost base of acquired assets and depreciation calculate based on new value.

Impairment
If latter realized recoverable value (higher of selling price of the business and NPV of future cash flows) is less than what we paid (in this case if cant recover 4000 by selling 60% ownership or continuing the business) the gap is recognize as an impairment.

Recognition of impairment is subjective. So though there are impairments, management may not recognize them in P/L.

The indication of possible impairment loss is that subsidiary is contributing less than expected (generating negative residual income) and lesser possibility of turning back. If the subsidiary is listed, we can see a permanent drop in share price of the subsidiary. A short-term price fluctuation (as now in CSE) do not trigger impairments, IMHO.

Hope I have answered two questions.

15Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:03 pm

Slstock

Slstock
Director - Equity Analytics
Director - Equity Analytics

Academic wrote:
I'm not motivated (demotivated) by positive (negative) reps. Anyway thanks for the appreciation.

I'm not very familiar with SLAS (I'm not an accountant, so an accountant please correct me if wrong). However, Sri Lanka follows/adopt International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS). According to IFRS goodwill can be recognized either as full or partial. What VOL has done is partial goodwill recognition. I demonstrate partial goodwill recognition below.

Target company's

  • Cost value of total tangible assets (net of liability) 5000
  • Fair value (appraised/market) value of tangible assets (net of liability) 6000
  • 4000 paid to acquire 60%

Goodwill is 4000 - 6000*.6 = 400

Note: Goodwill is not based on historical cost NAV.

6000 become new cost base of acquired assets and depreciation calculate based on new value.

Impairment
If latter realized recoverable value (higher of selling price of the business and NPV of future cash flows) is less than what we paid (in this case if cant recover 4000 by selling 60% ownership or continuing the business) the gap is recognize as an impairment.

Recognition of impairment is subjective. So though there are impairments, management may not recognize them in P/L.

The indication of possible impairment loss is that subsidiary is contributing less than expected (generating negative residual income) and lesser possibility of turning back. If the subsidiary is listed, we can see a permanent drop in share price of the subsidiary. A short-term price fluctuation (as now in CSE) do not trigger impairments, IMHO.

Hope I have answered two questions.

Thanks for clarifying. I see. Rep was for appreciation only.

16Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:10 pm

Academic


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Appreciations (as well as criticisms) are warmly welcome! Very Happy

17Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:59 pm

laka

laka
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

@Academic
You said: "Note: Goodwill is not based on historical cost NAV."

I think Goodwill ca be based on either of His. cost or Fair Value.
But if we use Fair value method, definitely there should be Revaluation surplus A/c in b.sheet.

*I couldn't see such a/c in B.sheet. so assume that they have used Historical method....

*Correct me if iam wrong
Wink

18Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:32 pm

Academic


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

laka wrote: @Academic
You said: "Note: Goodwill is not based on historical cost NAV."

I think Goodwill ca be based on either of His. cost or Fair Value.
But if we use Fair value method, definitely there should be Revaluation surplus A/c in b.sheet.

*I couldn't see such a/c in B.sheet. so assume that they have used Historical method....

*Correct me if iam wrong
Wink

Goodwill is based on fair-value under IFRS. No revaluation account is created when goodwill is based on fair-value! Seems you are familiar with double entry system. In my previous example, if total liability is assumed as 2000 (normally historical value of liabilities are considered as at fair-value, so historical and fair-value most of liabilities are the same). Following are the consolidation entries (note: no revaluation account created).

  • Tangible Assets Dr (6000+2000) = 8000
  • Goodwill Dr 400
    • Liability Cr 2000
    • Equity Cr 4000
    • Minority Interest Cr (6000*.4)=2400

Total Dr and Cr = 8400

19Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:44 pm

sexyequity


Stock Trader

Good Discussion ! Keep it up guys !

20Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:14 pm

limestone

limestone
Manager - Equity Analytics
Manager - Equity Analytics

Compared to the IPOs of the recent past , Valibalone is a fair one for us . because there won’t be many people to dump as the issue price and the private placement price are the same

21Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:54 pm

intelstk


Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

Academic wrote:
I'm not motivated (demotivated) by positive (negative) reps. Anyway thanks for the appreciation.

I'm not very familiar with SLAS (I'm not an accountant, so an accountant please correct me if wrong). However, Sri Lanka follows/adopt International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS). According to IFRS goodwill can be recognized either as full or partial. What VOL has done is partial goodwill recognition. I demonstrate partial goodwill recognition below.

Target company's

  • Cost value of total tangible assets (net of liability) 5000
  • Fair value (appraised/market) value of tangible assets (net of liability) 6000
  • 4000 paid to acquire 60%

Goodwill is 4000 - 6000*.6 = 400

Note: Goodwill is not based on historical cost NAV.

6000 become new cost base of acquired assets and depreciation calculate based on new value.

Impairment
If latter realized recoverable value (higher of selling price of the business and NPV of future cash flows) is less than what we paid (in this case if cant recover 4000 by selling 60% ownership or continuing the business) the gap is recognize as an impairment.

Recognition of impairment is subjective. So though there are impairments, management may not recognize them in P/L.

The indication of possible impairment loss is that subsidiary is contributing less than expected (generating negative residual income) and lesser possibility of turning back. If the subsidiary is listed, we can see a permanent drop in share price of the subsidiary. A short-term price fluctuation (as now in CSE) do not trigger impairments, IMHO.

Hope I have answered two questions.


I shocked thinking that DP has done wrong investment decision in RCL and LFIN. lol!

As I know if the recoverable value (this case market value of subsidiaries) are less than the book value of investment, impairment must be done.

In this case, RCL impaired 185 mn as of now and LFIN investment value increased by 1,100 mn. therefore as a whole value increased by 915 mn which they have not accounted for. pirat pirat


22Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:38 pm

Academic


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

intelstk wrote:
In this case, RCL impaired 185 mn as of now and LFIN investment value increased by 1,100 mn. therefore as a whole value increased by 915 mn which they have not accounted for. pirat pirat

Accepted. However, note that this is only Rs: 0.91 per share addition.

23Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:45 am

laka

laka
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

Academic wrote:
laka wrote: @Academic
You said: "Note: Goodwill is not based on historical cost NAV."

I think Goodwill ca be based on either of His. cost or Fair Value.
But if we use Fair value method, definitely there should be Revaluation surplus A/c in b.sheet.

*I couldn't see such a/c in B.sheet. so assume that they have used Historical method....

*Correct me if iam wrong
Wink

Goodwill is based on fair-value under IFRS. No revaluation account is created when goodwill is based on fair-value! Seems you are familiar with double entry system. In my previous example, if total liability is assumed as 2000 (normally historical value of liabilities are considered as at fair-value, so historical and fair-value most of liabilities are the same). Following are the consolidation entries (note: no revaluation account created).

  • Tangible Assets Dr (6000+2000) = 8000
  • Goodwill Dr 400
    • Liability Cr 2000
    • Equity Cr 4000
    • Minority Interest Cr (6000*.4)=2400

Total Dr and Cr = 8400

I am 100% agree with ur J/Es subject to another J/E. As i know there is no major difference between SLAS 41 & IAS related standered. But you have missed 1 J/E....

According to ur eg. there is difference of 1000m(6000-5000) inbetween historical NA and Fair Value. So there sd be another J/E as follows

PPE Dr 1000
Re val sueplus Cr 600
MI Cr 400

Buddy... Are u agree with that J/E?

But As per VOL Bsheet, Those Reval surplus includes in Goodwill A/c itself...It sd b tranfered to Reval A/C. Have they assessed Fair Value @ the aquirsition ???

24Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:39 pm

Academic


Senior Manager - Equity Analytics
Senior Manager - Equity Analytics

Do not agree with your J/E. Think from acquirer's point of view, then you may understand!

25Vallibel One Analysis  Empty Re: Vallibel One Analysis Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:20 am

laka

laka
Senior Equity Analytic
Senior Equity Analytic

Academic wrote:Do not agree with your J/E. Think from acquirer's point of view, then you may understand!

I am more sure on that .... Anuway I will search on that further as sometimes you may correct... flower

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