SEC, CSE and rest of the world....

UKboy · 1 SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:12 pm

UKboy

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I have not seen this many people moaning about any SEC in any other country (of cause few exceptions like Bangladesh)

Earlier majority of retailers went against Malik Carder and Indrani Sugathadasa. Eventually they had to resign. At that time retailers were craftily mislead by some heavyweight investors and some advisors (who are insulting the dress code “smart”).

Now same thing is happening against Dr T.K (I guess).

I need to tell to the entire board of retailers that these guys are not to (mainly) blame for your unrealise losses (I’m sorry if I hurt any of you which I really do not want to do).
No market is this world safe from manipulation or any wrong doings.

I’m a very very small retailer (mostly an observer) in London stock exchange and without a shadow of a doubt I can clearly say that my money is not safe in LSE. Some price fluctuations are so enormous compare to CSE. In Sri Lanka we called it manipulation and blame SEC but London it’s called risk.

Of course there are unethical things are happening @ CSE. But the issue is we cannot control the majority of these unethical things. Also we cannot expect most of the crafty people will be prosecuted in a 3rd world country. Slowly SEC is doing what they are supposed to do. But things can be changed in any minute and that’s the nature of this business in our country.

P.S I have no connection with any of these SEC officers.

sriranga · 2 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 pm

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Well said and hope many of our readers comprehend the message.
Thanks UKBoy.

worthiness · 3 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:57 pm

worthiness

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Most of investors read many newspapers related to stock market not considering such news come from pro or anti government media. Investors are desperate of losses incurred as a result of downtrend market.
Most shocking news keep investors off track. We are painstakingly confused by reading lengthy pros & cons. Forum readers need a simple clarification what is going on....

Market Sucker · 4 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:03 pm

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Investors cry foul over changing rules overnight

SEC’s credit rules
In an email to the chairperson and comissioners of the Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC), on Wednesday an un-named investor has cried foul over the new T+5 credit rules saying it’s unfair for investors to change the rules overnight.

The letter said:

“Investors should be given at least six months’ notice. Why? The law-abiding true investor buys and sells shares by taking decisions following the current rules. The rule changes should not affect the past. If the SEC says credit should be cleared next month or in the next five days the investor will sell the shares within this month or week adhering to your rule. If you change the rule in the middle of the month after the investor sells his shares you have deliberately made the investor lose money. You have forced the investor to sell the shares with a loss. If the investor kept his shares he could have made a profit when you have changed the rules.

This is a violation of the fundamental rights of the law-abiding citizen. You cannot force a person to sell his ring he’s wearing at half the real price or the full price without his consent, without a reason. You cannot say I changed my mind one hour later. You have to repay the investor’s realized loss and the unrealized profit because your change of mind had cost him.

please read further from

http://sundaytimes.lk/110522/BusinessTimes/bt20.html

Whitebull · 5 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:40 pm

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Market Sucker wrote:Investors cry foul over changing rules overnight

SEC’s credit rules
In an email to the chairperson and comissioners of the Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC), on Wednesday an un-named investor has cried foul over the new T+5 credit rules saying it’s unfair for investors to change the rules overnight.

The letter said:

“Investors should be given at least six months’ notice. Why? The law-abiding true investor buys and sells shares by taking decisions following the current rules. The rule changes should not affect the past. If the SEC says credit should be cleared next month or in the next five days the investor will sell the shares within this month or week adhering to your rule. If you change the rule in the middle of the month after the investor sells his shares you have deliberately made the investor lose money. You have forced the investor to sell the shares with a loss. If the investor kept his shares he could have made a profit when you have changed the rules.

This is a violation of the fundamental rights of the law-abiding citizen. You cannot force a person to sell his ring he’s wearing at half the real price or the full price without his consent, without a reason. You cannot say I changed my mind one hour later. You have to repay the investor’s realized loss and the unrealized profit because your change of mind had cost him.

please read further from

http://sundaytimes.lk/110522/BusinessTimes/bt20.html

This is a good point.This policy caused market to go down unmethodically......market had need a correction but the way prior regulators did that caused real loss of money.

Once they asked to clear the credit by December 2010 which was again stupid method.....to worsen the situation then they extended the deadline in the middle of December which might caused loss of money of investers/traders who were not luxurios enough to get this type of insider information beforehand.And that extentions went on again and again causing much haywire among investers/traders.

Anyway Mr.Thilak tried to do some necessary amendments during this bear market which was a good oppurtunity but ultimately it seems MONEY is going to win.

anubis · 6 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:53 pm

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Have to agree with both UKBoy's opinions as well as the fact pointed out by Whitebull. Our government has been too radical with certain changes I feel. There should be a methodical approach implementing changes rather than implementing massive changes overnight.

However, I do not know how such changes are implemented in other stock exchanges / economies in general, anybody have an example? (i.e. drastic changes implemented overnight by a major economy Or introduced gradually?) May be we need a bigger perspective on these drastic changes to see why it's necessary / harmful to implement them overnight.

Cheers!

Whitebull · 7 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:03 pm

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anubis wrote:Our government has been too radical with certain changes I feel. There should be a methodical approach implementing changes rather than implementing massive changes overnight.

I do agree with you.This is a serious lack in present government.Sudden policy changes cause lot of unnecessary troubles and these unmethodical ways can shorten the life span of the government also.Before introducing a new policy they should prepare public mind for that and then that policy may even come as a public request without causing unnecessary troubles.

hawklk · 8 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:06 pm

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I do agree with you.This is a serious lack in present government.Sudden policy changes cause lot of unnecessary troubles and these unmethodical ways can shorten the life span of the government also.Before introducing a new policy they should prepare public mind for that and then that policy may even come as a public request without causing unnecessary troubles.[/quote]

In my opinion the Government's life would have ended a long time ago if we had a strong opposition. Unfortunately we do no have that. That's a different story.

Based on newspaper articles some HNWI influenced somebody to remove SEC Chief. Like to know who has been influenced to remove SEC chief, who has the power to appoint and remove SEC chief.

"“He is extremely frustrated as there is little help from those who are supposed to back him in doing the right thing. It also seems that the decision was prompted by his unwillingness to cause difficulties to those who appointed him to this high office,” a SEC source on the grounds of anonymity said." - www.dailymirror.lk

Who is supposed to back him and why his person or persons not backing him in doing the right thing?

Also based on these articles Mr. Dammika Perera is next in line. OK....will he grant unlimited credit allow the market to reach 6500 and beyond or will he too will put more regulations. Brokers want more and more relaxation on credit.

These are the conflicting thoughts that I get when I read these paper articles. Can someone shed some light on this matter.

UKboy · 9 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:27 pm

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Whitebull wrote:

anubis wrote:Our government has been too radical with certain changes I feel. There should be a methodical approach implementing changes rather than implementing massive changes overnight.

I do agree with you.This is a serious lack in present government.Sudden policy changes cause lot of unnecessary troubles and these unmethodical ways can shorten the life span of the government also.Before introducing a new policy they should prepare public mind for that and then that policy may even come as a public request without causing unnecessary troubles.

anubis & whitebull,Yes this is something I can agree with you guys.

We have no shame to bring any notorious policy over night. Ex expropriation bill

What I want to highlight is we cannot blame SEC for every single mistake we did in last 18 months.
I think many people are frustrated with their unrealised loses and trying to find a route to put the blame on someone except them. Personally I believe SEC has a 15-20% responsibility for retailers unrealise loses.Only because they bring these new rules without giving anytime to think.
But CSE could have been another DSE (dhaka stock exchange) if they had not implemented some drastic actions in 2011.

One think I cannot understand is why retailers are expecting miracles from a politically corrupted nation. By now we all should know how money and power can change things in Sri Lanka. I know it’s very frustrating but you and I cannot do much (until at least 2015)

Chinwi · 10 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:50 pm

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Whitebull in another thread wrote:Some people always cry about hidden agendas of other members but it seems they have another hidden agendas.

I wanted to reply you in that place but the topic was closed.

The phenomenon you mentioned was observed by many people including myself by going through the comments done by some individuals during past few months.

It is good to see the emerging of new names in a forum like this when old timers keep away. (We saw many useful contributors vacating us during this period. )

I think some of these people came here not to learn, not to contribute for others but to fulfill their hidden agendas.

This is not about the people who come here and disclose themselves within few days.
Most dangerous are the wolves come in Sheep's Clothing. They live in disguise and preach others about good governance.

Last edited by Chinwi on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total

anubis · 11 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:01 am

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"One thing I cannot understand is why retailers are expecting miracles from a politically corrupted nation."

Couldn't agree more. It's not whether it's UNP / SLFP, but third world countries like ours have this sort of issues regardless of which party is in power. It's not just the politicians, but the majority population in general is "less honest" (I think that would be the politically correct way to put it).

Cheers!

Rapaport · 12 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:59 am

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When I heard about facebook IPO I just remembered softlogic and expo.
Cheating happens in all markets

Cheers

Redbulls · 13 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:48 am

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Rapaport wrote:When I heard about facebook IPO I just remembered softlogic and expo.
Cheating happens in all markets

Cheers

Another interesting story like facebook.

Manchester United’s float shares ‘are worth less than $5’

13 August 2012

Manchester United’s already troubled stock market flotation suffered a fresh blow today when a US research team said the shares were worth less than $5 each.

That compares with the $14 at which the shares joined the New York Stock Exchange on Friday, a price that was already lower than the $16-$20 range announced just a few weeks ago.

Amid criticism from football finance experts that the float is “priced to fail”, that the shares pay no dividend and have no hope of doing so, and that football floats in general have a poor history, there were growing suggestions today that the Manchester United deal was overpriced at best.

PrivCo, the Private Company Financial Data Authority, says the business is also being buffeted by the “Facebook effect” as investors increasingly fear that buying into Wall Street will leave them burned.

PrivCo, based in New York, said: “Manchester IPO’s overpricing by some 280% had no reasonable economic basis, as companies and bankers counting on a ‘retail investor put’ in light of the team’s large fanbase to place a floor under the stock’s price failed to materialise.”

The firm says a fair value for the shares is $4.97, a price it could reach within a year.

Added PrivCo: “The ‘Facebook effect’ causes consumers to grow wary after suffering repeated losses on retail-investor targeted IPOs with unrealistic valuations.”

If PrivCo is right, that would leave the club valued at $800 million (£510 million), rather than the more than $3 billion the owners were hoping for.

The company compared United with other publicly listed football clubs, including Juventus, Roma and Borussia Dortmund, and recent takeovers of other sports clubs or franchises, including Liverpool, LA Dodgers and Boston Celtics, before predicting United will emulate Facebook.

Manchester United has been controlled since 2005 by billionaire US sports investors the Glazer family, who paid £800 million for the club, but have since tried to argue that it is worth much more than this because of its international fanbase.

In the float prospectus, the 134-year-old club said it had an audience of four billion viewers in the 2010-11 season. Much of its future strategy is based on exploiting opportunities outside the UK. It made a profit of £13 million in 2011.

Asked to comment, one City financier and Manchester United fan said: “United is worth £800 million, no more. This ‘float’ will be a good idea if the price drops and these dreadful owners are forced to quit fleecing United for cash.”

Approximately 10% of the shares were sold off, raising $233 million to pay off some of the more than £400 million in debt.
http://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/manchester-uniteds-float-shares-are-worth-less-than-5-8038177.html

Slstock · 14 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:11 am

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Noted some good discussions here. Thanks Uboy for starting the topic.

By the way are we still "third world" or "developing" ? I am not talking word play here as some will say it is the same but if we think we are a developing country in the word sense itself, we better start, act think on a more developed way than before. Else we will alway be in the same rut.

Blaming others is the easiest thing to do when we are down. But understanding some realities and surviving them to come out victorious ( in just way) in the future is the hardest but smartest thing to do. Yes we cannot perform miracles in system which has identifiable flaws and kinks.

BTW are we not blaming ourselves at all for falling prey to manipulative play when the market was overvalued? Is it due to lack of education or it is greed we let some people lead us through a maze. If SEC did not take certain measures , I think we could have seen blood shed and far worse crisis than this. But I also agree that SECs sudden and over ambitious decisions ( idea right implementation and time frame wrong) did go over board at times.

As I always say we like to act on extremes and not moderation.

econ · 15 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:38 am

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SEC high ranked members are apointed by some currepted politicians so we can not expect good job from them.

aj · 16 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:18 am

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Sri Lanka will always be a developing country. Sri Lankans will always say this is and that is because it's a developing country. Today, Tomorrow, in 2020
Even when some African countries will become developed countries. Sri Lanka will always be a developing country.

Hanoifortune · 17 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:30 am

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aj wrote:Sri Lanka will always be a developing country. Sri Lankans will always say this is and that is because it's a developing country. Today, Tomorrow, in 2020
Even when some African countries will become developed countries. Sri Lanka will always be a developing country.

Now lot of developed countries are becoming poor countries.Pls read and lsiten to news.
We are proud of our country.

Slstock · 18 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:42 am

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aj wrote:Sri Lanka will always be a developing country. Sri Lankans will always say this is and that is because it's a developing country. Today, Tomorrow, in 2020
Even when some African countries will become developed countries. Sri Lanka will always be a developing country.

Come on now, Have a bit of positiveness . Things can change if change is something WE want . But We means it has to start from the top also.

UKboy · 19 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:13 am

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Rapaport wrote:When I heard about facebook IPO I just remembered softlogic and expo.
Cheating happens in all markets

Cheers

That's a good point Rapaport,
The problem is whatever the American SEC is doing right. Because they have stronger rules and a good governing body. So we think over priced Facebook IPO was a just a small mistake.
As Redbull point out, Manchester United IPO is another one.

ESSR IPO in London stock exchange is another very good example.

But regarding SHL & EXPO.
We think local SEC is soooo wrong to bring over price IPOs. So they should be resigned.

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SEC, CSE and rest of the world....

1 SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:12 pm

UKboy

2 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 pm

sriranga

3 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:57 pm

worthiness

4 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:03 pm

Market Sucker

5 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:40 pm

Whitebull

6 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:53 pm

anubis

7 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:03 pm

Whitebull

8 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:06 pm

hawklk

9 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:27 pm

UKboy

10 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:50 pm

Chinwi

11 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:01 am

anubis

12 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:59 am

Rapaport

13 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:48 am

Redbulls

14 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:11 am

Slstock

15 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:38 am

econ

16 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:18 am

aj

17 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:30 am

Hanoifortune

18 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:42 am

Slstock

19 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world.... Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:13 am

UKboy

20 Re: SEC, CSE and rest of the world....

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